Can we clear a point on ballasting

Discussion in 'Scenics' started by Toto, May 13, 2018.

  1. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I have been watching various video's on ballasting and laying aside the 50 / 50% PVA / water mix for gluing, can we have clarity on the wetting of the track and area to be ballasted first. Some folks say water with some washing up liquid in it ( which would be my choice ) others say watered down metholated spirit.

    whats it to be or is it just personal choice ?

    toto
     
  2. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    146
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Water with washing up liquid works very well!!
     
  3. York Paul

    York Paul T' Owd Knotty Full Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    450
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Toto hopefully this product might help you in Luib Bridge trackwork dressing.

     
  4. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Thank you both. I'll find a mister bottle. :avatar:
     
  5. York Paul

    York Paul T' Owd Knotty Full Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    450
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now Ballast Bond seems to be some sort of dilute latex mix the consistency of which I've tried copying but without success, the medium is applied via the bottle but with a dropper attached, The problem with latex is that it has the habit of clogging up the dispenser after time, so regular cleaning is essential to keep things flowing as they say. In the case of ballasting Elton Crossing I misted the surface of the dry ballast first with water... care not too flood the track tho, applying the Ballast Bond was a long laborious job and turned out quite expensive in use of volume, the bond drops onto the scatter / ballast with a milky white colour but dries clear and takes a couple of days to harden off. Personally I discarded using PVA as it dries with a glazy finish which if dropped onto sleepers and rail leaves a bit of an unsightly "skin" when dry... but this is subjective and again Rule ! applies as to preference. Now another product which is very similar to Ballast Bond and works exactly the same is Static Grass Basing Glue made by WWS, their website is www.wwscenics.co.uk. A 500mm bottle gives a considerable cost saving over the Ballast Bond product.
     
  6. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'll check it out . :thumbs:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  7. York Paul

    York Paul T' Owd Knotty Full Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    450
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now I've just taken a couple of pictures to show some close up results of my efforts all fixed with Ballast Bond and WWS Basing Glue. The first picture is Fine Clinker for N Gauge by Jarvis Countryside Scenics.


    This picture shows the same clinker material but with some grass clumps I made using my Static applicator, note the chairs are by Slaters Plasticard and represent old 85lb RBS bullhead section which uses the slightly thinner section Peco rail.


    Lastly a mix of fine clinker and grey ballast for use with OO Gauge size, all the timbering arrangement of this crossing nose has been hand built and the fishplates are by C&L. The point is a B9 turnout I scratched which comes in at just under two feet in length, of interest is the crossing Vee where the Point Rail, Splice Rail and Outside Rails are all of equal length thus the joints can all share the same crib which makes the timbering prototypical. The cut in the rail to the left of the Splice Rail is a short closure rail I added afterwards.

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
    Rob Pulham likes this.
  8. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    very very nice. I like the compacted look and fine finish. looks like its been down for years.

    great result.

    toto:thumbs:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  9. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    389
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I've read you can dilute copydex (rubber latex glue) with water, and to help flow can add a small amount of Methylated Spirit (Methanol).

    I have used both Isopropanol (IPA), and W5 window & glass cleaner as a wetting agent. I've not tried Meths as a wetting agent - maybe on the next layout.

    Paul
     
    York Paul likes this.
  10. York Paul

    York Paul T' Owd Knotty Full Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    450
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now I've just taken a couple of pictures to show some close up results of my efforts all fixed with Ballast Bond and WWS Basing Glue. The first picture is Fine Clinker for N Gauge by Jarvis Countryside Scenics.


    This picture shows the same clinker material but with some grass clumps I made using my Static applicator, note the chairs are by Slaters Plasticard and represent old 85lb RBS bullhead section.


    Lastly a mix of fine clinker and grey ballast for use with OO Gauge size, all the timbering arrangement of this crossing noseis hand built and the fishplates are by C&L. The point is a B9 turnout I scratched which comes in at just under two feet in length, of interest is the crossing Vee where the Point Rail and Splice Rail are of equal length thus the joints share the same crib which makes the timbering prototypical.

    The only wetting agent I've used recently was a couple of pints of Taylors Landlords down the local.:avatar::avatar:http://www.click
     
  11. York Paul

    York Paul T' Owd Knotty Full Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    450
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Toto, the atmosphere I wanted to recreate was in capturing that clog and knocker North Staffs goods line look where the traffic was mostly coal, just as a matter of interest my 16 ton mineral fleet has started to develop a stash of unbuilt kits.
     
  12. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Get the piccies up then ....... Who's kits are they ?

    Paul also done an excellent job of ballasting on Victoria road. A similar sort of well used look. I might need to get some fines to mix through the stuff I've got.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  13. Colin_W

    Colin_W Full Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Just a thought on this. I think the term is Whetting and seem to remember the process of whetting being to facilitate the flow or ease the passage of something. The washing up liquid in the whetting process allows the pva/water mix to flow evenly and smoothly through the ballast stopping lumps from forming and ensuring the mixture is completely whetted, no dry powdery areas, water on it's own won't do this. It's the same as using flux on a solder joint when the flux on say a brass plate kit is heated it allows the solder to flow into the joint, the flux is the whetting agent here. Having a beer before the curry, whetting the appetite, having a beer before the baby is born, whetting the baby's head or putting oil on a whetstone to smooth the sharpening process - then having a beer.
    I could however be totally wrong and be shot down in flames but I'm sticking with the water/washing up liquid side. Try a sample and watch the mix spread like oil on water.
    Col
     
  14. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    10,260
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Thank you for that kind Sir. I will do and post up the results. Ballasting is something that you want to get right first time or it can crate one hell of a mess. :thumbs:
     
  15. Colin_W

    Colin_W Full Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    You are welcome Squire, just a point I think the american spelling drops the 'h' in whetting, it now does appear it's spelled wetting.
     

Share This Page