Class 73 sound?

Discussion in 'DCC Sound' started by Keith M, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    I have a total of 3 of the upcoming DJM Class 73 models on order, and will soon be looking to sound fit at least one initially, and likely all 3 eventually. I'm aware that 'Olivia'sTrains' have a sound package available, and also 'Legomanbiffo' for the Hornby version of this model, but as I understand it, both use the Loksound decoder. As I've previously had 2 very early (like 45 minutes!) failures of these ESU's as against zero failures of at least a dozen Zimo's, then I guess it's understandable that I'm not keen on using an ESU again, so does anyone know of a Zimo supplier with good sound files for this model on offer. My supplier of choice has always been Youchoos, but as yet have no suitable files to offer, so I'm keen to look around at possible alternatives. Is it possible for an ESU supplier to blow a Zimo decoder (with suitable software) with the same files, or do such problems as 'copyright' etc. make this a 'no-no'!
    Keith.
     
  2. charliepetty

    charliepetty Full Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    You cannot re-blow a ESU file onto a Zimo decoder OR a Zimo file onto a ESU decoder. You would have to start from scatch and re-edit all the sound files onto a Zimo decoder. Sorry but not much point in that as the ESU decoders with Legomanbiffo sound are selling well, We have a DJ Models
    71 prototype which hase been fitted with a Long Bass speaker. It sound good.

    PPS Most ESU Main Stockists should offer a quick turnround on faulty decoders, unless the customer has blown it up!!!!!!!!!!!

    Charlie
     
  3. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Hi Keith I'm not sure who uses what. I hope my luck with my first sound chip goes a bit smoother.
    let us know how you get on.

    cheers
    Toto
     
  4. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I assume you mean class 71, not class 73, Keith. :)

    I am getting the Legomanbiffo class 71 sounds blown onto an existing LokSound v4 decoder for one of my forthcoming DJM class 71 models.
    There is a video on YouTube demonstrating the sounds in a Hornby model - I don't have the link to hand but will post later, if Charlie doesn't beat me to it.
     
  5. charliepetty

    charliepetty Full Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Beat You!!!!!!!!!!!

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=merlin+dcc+legomanbiffo+class+71&view=detail&mid=C5B1483BA5D7987B39BFC5B1483BA5D7987B39BF&FORM=VIRE

    Charlie (PPS Should be in bed)
     
  6. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    :avatar: :avatar: :avatar:

    Thanks Charlie.
     
  7. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Yes Jeff, I do indeed mean Class 71......another "Senior moment", I guess!!! (Well, I am almost 70!). I appreciate that Charlie sells the Loksounds, so understandably promotes them, but that doesn't alter my experience of them in the past. For Charlie's benefit, I'll go over what happened with my two failures. Probably about 18 months ago now, I bought a new Bachmann E4 from "Rails" in Sheffield (my nearest 'large' dealer, who I've dealt with several times in the past), and as they had the sound decoder in stock, bought that too,only having fitted a few Zimo's previously. When it came to fitting, as always, I run in the loco on DC first, then took the body off, removed the 8 pin socket and wired in the decoder direct as space is at a premium in this loco. fixing sugar cube speaker and decoder to the chassis temporarily, I then began running the loco without the body fitted. After about 30 minutes, there was a click from the speaker and the loco stopped, with no further movement or sound. I contacted "Rails" who immediately emailed me a return label, and they returned it to South West Digital, the UK importers. A month passed before a replacement arrived, apparently since SWD had returned the decoder to ESU. I again wired in the decoder, and all was well for about 45 minutes, after which the loco and sound again stopped. As you might imagine, I had by then had quite enough of ESU decoders, so contacted "Rails" again who immediately issued a return label and full credit (Top marks to "Rails"!). I'm not sure what you think Charlie, but in my opinion, a month for a replacement is just not good enough, and at this point, it's worth my pointing out that despite my age, I am a retired Electrician (with some electronics) of more than 50 years experience and have fitted over 60 non-sound and over a dozen sound decoders so I'm well aware of what is required in fitting. Also I think you will find several of our Australian members who don't have many good words to say about ESU decoders and the warranty, although It's possible that the UK warranty is somewhat different to the Australian one, but warranties apart, if the product were more reliable, then warranty would be less of an issue. There is also the fact that a speaker is included in the price of ESU decoders, which is often of no use as it won't fit the available space, at least with Zimo's, you can select a suitable sized speaker for the loco in hand as an extra, although as a seller, I suppose it's good for your business. I'm not for one minute denigrating ESU, this has just been my experience, and not a good one, so maybe you can understand my reluctance to use them unless I absolutely HAVE to, and this might well be the case with the Class 71's, as I'm not aware of anyone offering Zimo's with that sound file. As to the technicalities of the sound files themselves, that's well outside of my experience and comfort zone so I can't comment on that. I did look at, and take a brochure from your stand at the recent Loughborough event, just after speaking with Dave Jones (He of "DJM"), and I gather your sounds are highly regarded on several forums, so, have you any plans to take on Zimo sound decoders, or are they (and possibly yourselves) "Accredited Agents" perhaps?
    Keith.
     
  8. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    All very interesting. My experience with any of the above is at best poor so I can't comment. I do have my 26 to chip and I will post it up when I do it.

    Sometimes you can have a run of bad luck. I have bought a couple of Hornby loco's ( new ) and both let me down with DCC fitting ( not sound ) . I must admit it put me right of Hornby ( rightly or wrongly ) it may have just been my experience as most other folks seem quite happy with any they have bought. The bottom line is ...... Out of over a hundred 00 gauge loco's, you will be lucky if I gave about 5 Hornby. I think it's sometimes just your luck but it can effect your judgement and the decisions that you personally make.

    As far as Locksound and Zimo decoders goes ( not the sound files themselves ) .........what are the experiences of other members. Please comment, good, bad or indifferent. Honest, balanced and subjective views all welcome.

    Again, I expect it will be mixed as with most things but since DCC sound is without a doubt a relatively new and growing market, it is good to run a sense check on it every now and again. The decoder being the vehicle for the sound file is every bit as important as the sound file itself as we are finding out.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  9. charliepetty

    charliepetty Full Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    In my experience there is a 3 to 5% failure rate on ESU decoders, the 8Pin seeem to be worse than the 21Pin. We give a unlimited warranty, not the 12months ESU warranty as all we do is return them as faulty, for a Free Exchange! We normally turn round failures in 7 Days, IF the customer 'ADMITS' he has shorted it out either touching the speaker wires (Low Voltage) onto any 16Volt circuit generally being silly then all we charge is a reblow onto the New Decoder. We cannot officially sell Zimo as the Distributor (Rail Exclusive) see's us as the threat to Digitrains as we do far more shows than they do and of course offer far more diesel & electric projects. Zimo decoders 8Pin & 21Pin have failed in the Steam locos we do, but the worst one is the Zimo Micro 8Pin, as they are rated for 8 ohm speakers, thus don't like two speakers in the loco & tender. We sell a lot of ESU and honestly they are OK. (I would say that, would'nt I) but stay clear of all the new Bachmann Sound Fitted loco's coming out, as the have ESU 'Select' decoders, they are charging you £100.00 extra for a £45.00 Decoder you cannot re-blow with better sounds, just like the Hornby TTS, you are stuck with the sound you have bought. Hope you find the helpfull. Charlie
     
  10. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Of all the ESU decoders I possess (over 40 of them), I have had only one failure, and even that was only a half-failure: it would go forwards but not backwards. That was an 8-pin v3.5 decoder, which I have now sold to someone on another forum, who wants it for ambient sounds so the lack of directional drive is unimportant to him.

    The decoder involved didn't actually cost me anything as I did some renumbering and re-decalling work on a Bachmann class 66 for a friend who uses analogue DC. He paid me with the LokSound decoder that was fitted into that 66, since he wasn't into sound anyway. It was working properly when I got it but it failed a bit later on.
     
  11. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    2,902
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Thanks for your advice and candid reply Charlie. I'll be going to Warley, and I imagine you'll have a stand there too, so assuming I've received some or all of my Class 71's by then, I'll drop by for a listen, and you may well get a sale (or two), maybe change my opinion of ESU decoders too. Since "Rails" only sell pre- recorded decoders by SWD, I guess they have to go through SWD in the event of a failure, whereas since you download your own sound files to a blank decoder, you can do a much swifter turnaround in the event of failure (God forbid!!!). I'll be happy to have my opinions changed, anyone can sell decoders, but in the event of problems, it's the aftersales service that really counts.
    Keith.
     
  12. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,316
    Likes Received:
    3,847
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Great thread. I have a mix of Zimo (Digitrains) and ESU Loksound in my few sound fitted locos. I have not had any trouble with them and fingers crossed, I will not !
    I have not used Legomanbiffo sounds yet (sorry Charlie), but what I hear on the video links is great. Maybe my next sound project can come from Charlie.

    Question for you Charlie : I know Bachmann have chosen the Zimo MX618 N18 DCC decoder for this loco, but, do you have sound ready for the newly released Bachmann 2MT Tank ?? Bachmann do recommend fitting their own pre-loaded sound decoder..., and I hear what you are saying about their own sound profiles.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  13. charliepetty

    charliepetty Full Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Hi there, Bachmann have used the Next 18 for its small size in the restricted area where the plug is, the sounds they are using are a mystery so until we hear them I cannot comment re quality or decoder type.

    Charlie
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,316
    Likes Received:
    3,847
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    The Next 18 decoder in the DCC On Board Models is the Zimo MX618 N18 decoder !

    [​IMG]

    I am led to believe that the Zimo MX658N18 is the appropriate sound decoder for this loco, (according to Youchoos).

    Cheers, Gary.
     

Share This Page