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DCC Controller quiery

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by Ron, May 29, 2017.

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  1. May 29, 2017 #1
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    I bought a Digitrax Zephyr controller at the very beginning of Weybourne layout in 2015.It sufficed but had some short comings ie; not portable and no route setting so
    I bought a Gaugemaster Prodigy 2 which was portable and had route settings which I learnt to use and it fitted the bill!I sent it back for repair in February this year as it stopped working in Program mode, it was repaired free under their Lifetime Warrenty system. But the more I used it the less I liked the 'feel' and actions of the buttons to a point where I have gone back to using the Digitrax Zephyr controller with all it's short comings.
    I am now looking at an NCE Powercab which is portable, route setting and has a computer interface which neither of the previous controllers had.
    What to do??Help and comments please and a buyer for a S/H Prodigy 2 ??
    Cheers
    Ron
     
  2. May 29, 2017 #2
    Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Ron, having used lots of systems, all have their pro's and con's, for me the NCE system came out on top. Very easy to use, hand sets nice and friendly to operate, good manuals and the ability to up grade without having to discard lots of items.. I've not used the system with a computer but know that it can be done. Reading articles on the internet I would suggest that if you are likely to want to use a computerised system in the main, then the Lenz system might be a better choice .
    Kim
     
  3. May 29, 2017 #3
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Hi Kim and thanks, the Lenz controller looks good but a bit to expensive (already paid out for 2 DCC set ups!) so I'l carry on looking at the NCE cab I think...:)
    CheersRon
     
  4. May 29, 2017 #4
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hi Ron,
    I started with the NCE from the outset as per advice given on YMRC and have never looked back. In fairness, I have never owned any other ( in modern times ). I have not had any issues and know for a fact ( through many a discussion with the Messiah ) that it interfaces with computers easily. NCE also works well with other products like the switch 8 and various mini panels etc that may allow you to go further down the automation system without going fully computerised. It may cost a little more for the gizmos but I am confident that it would pay you back with ease of use and functionality.
    It's NCE for me.
    Cheers
    Toto
     
  5. May 29, 2017 #5
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Thanks Tom, it looks the more likely outcome I think!:thumbs:
     
  6. May 29, 2017 #6
    Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Second hand value not to flash Ron.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaugemaster-Prodigy-Advance2-DCC-Control-System-DCC02-eBaym-/152564630657?hash=item23858f8481:g:sNEAAOSwY3BZK1LD

    :facepalm:
     
  7. May 29, 2017 #7
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hi Ron,
    Another point is that If you are going to take the plunge, I'd start with the pro cab. More expensive than the power cab but again more options as your layout grows and it gives 5 amps rather than about 2 amps. It's more likely to make this your forever system.
    Read through the two versions and delve into the detail ....... Number of handsets that it can accommodate and the number of accessory add ons etc. Paul can explain this part better than I.
    Have a read
    Cheers
    Tom
     
  8. May 29, 2017 #8
    Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    And if the budget will allow, go wireless, no leads to trip you up:thumbs:
     
  9. May 29, 2017 #9
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Will read and consider oh mighty one http://www.click
    (Bearing mind I have a completed small layout!)
     
  10. May 29, 2017 #10
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Yes you do oh meek one, but you never know what's around the corner. Not so much size of layout but on the potential accessory front. Your DCC loco's also use more current, even just idling. The power cab would suffice ........ For now.
    :avatar:
     
  11. May 29, 2017 #11
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    I have a message coming through from the DCC gods ..... what timing ....... ohhhhhhhhh totooooooooooooo guideth Rooooooooooonnnnnnnnn. Take him through the darkness and show him the light. Help him in his quest and show him the way. ( jesus this guys full on ). Tell him of the bigger amperage and the unbridled availability of cab bus's which the pro cab has over the power cab ........... spread the worrrrrrrrrrrd. Tell him of the need to have to keep the power cab plugged in at all times and that the pro cab can be unplugged and moved from point to point without bringing the layout to a halt.
    Tell him of the ability to support more accessory items and the true versatility of the pro cab. ..........ohhhhhhhh totooooooooooooo, make him see the errors of his ways and release the shackles ........ release him from bondage foreverrrrrrrrrrrr

    well ....... There you go Ron ....... can't get much better an endorsement than that

    toto ( the knowledgeable )
     
  12. May 29, 2017 #12
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Ron, have a look on Ebay, there are often used Lenz systems at reasonable prices (that's where I bought mine from!). You have options of 2 or 5 amp transformers and should you ever decide to 'go large' layout-wise, extra link units are available to split power sections, also a USB linking unit for use with a PC (ask Colin W about that). The Lenz hand throttle has 2 types available, knob speed control or button speed control with standard Din plug so you can add extra plug-in positions easily without buying the Lenz add-on units. If you're still going to the GCR model event on the 16th, I'd hold back on buying yet as you might have the chance to try different controls to see which suits you (and your wallet!) best.:giggle:

    Keith.
     
  13. May 29, 2017 #13
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Good idea Keith, I was going to Digitrains in Lincoln, they have most if not all the controllers connected to a layout in the shop to try out. I'll check out Ebay as well.
    CheersRon
     
  14. May 29, 2017 #14
    jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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  15. May 29, 2017 #15
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    I think that should be £229.40 if not I'll keep mine as a spare then at that price!!:facepalm:
     
  16. May 29, 2017 #16
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Ron

    I suppose the place to start is with a few questions

    How many loco's will you have on the layout including the fiddle yard.

    How many operators - using there own handsets

    When you say computerized, do you mean computer assisted i.e. route setting, or full automation

    Do you want to buy in the control bits & pieces or are you prepared to have a go at building kits - you know the dark side is always looking for new recruits

    The answers to the above questions will help narrow your selections.

    As Kimbo pointed out, the NCE system is fully upgradeable, without making bits redundant, but an idea of where you want to end up will make whatever choice less expensive in the long run.

    As you may know I have an NCE PowerCab, and live with the constraints of 1.5A Track power, unable to move the powercab controller, a maximum of three handsets*, and three non controller cab bus devices (any combination of USB interface, AIU & Mini Panels).

    With the USB interface, I connect to the PC and JMRI and can control the layout via the PC.

    * using JMRI & wifi I can use mobile phones as throttles without effecting the number of proper throttles, this is also a cheap way of going wireless.

    Not JMRI will work with Lenz, Digitrax, NCE and the Prodigy.

    More later, give you chance to answer some of the questions - there will be a test at the end of the session

    Paul
     
  17. May 29, 2017 #17
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    I knew Paul could make more sense of it than me :avatar::thumbs:
     
  18. May 29, 2017 #18
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Right Paul,
    Q. How many loco's will you have on the layout including the fiddle yard.
    A. 10 or 12
    Q.How many operators - using there own handsets
    A. 1 (Me)
    Q. When you say computerized, do you mean computer assisted i.e. route setting, or full automation'
    A. Route setting with point and signal control.
    Q.Do you want to buy in the control bits & pieces or are you prepared to have a go at building kits - you know the dark side is always looking for new recruits
    A. Buy in parts but I already have enough decoders for my points and signals.


    Still think the Power Cab will be more than able to cope, I only move 1 loco at a time on this small end to end layout.
    Cheers
    Ron
     
  19. May 29, 2017 #19
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Round two

    Q. How many loco's will you have on the layout including the fiddle yard.
    A. 10 or 12
    For non-sound loco's assume approx 0.1A in standby, and 0.3 in motion, sound locos and Heljan loco's, assume 0.25 in standby and 0.5A in motion.
    On Viccy road for the exhibition, we had 5 x DMU, 1 x Heljan DPU, Cls 20 & 24 sound fitted and a Cls 26 - Heljan, normally only 1 loco in motion, occationally a second may have been shunting, and I never saw the current consumption go over 0.75A
    The PowerCab has a builtin Ammeter so you can monitor how much current you use, and then decide if you need to upgrade.
    3 main methods to increase power for the PowerCab - 2 official, 1 unofficial
    1 - Install an SB5 (NCE 5A smart booster for the power cab - essentially a 5A Powercab in a box)
    https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200913385-SB5-Smartbooster-for-Powercab
    2 - Install a PowerHouse box - the full NCE 5A system
    https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200943565-PH-Box

    3 - Install a 3rd party booster

    Merg 5A Booster or
    https://tonystrains.com/product/team-digital-dccboost-dcc-boostercommand-station/

    Q.How many operators - using there own handsets
    A. 1 (Me)
    Do you wish to relocate the controller, or can you work from one location - the flat cable that comes with the powercab is 6ft long.
    Using JMRI + WiFi you could use an Android or iPhone as a wireless throttle.
    Q. When you say computerized, do you mean computer assisted i.e. route setting, or full automation'
    A. Route setting with point and signal control.
    Now you've hit the achilies heel of the NCE systems - Signals, currently they do not have dedicated signals support, because the NMRA have not rattified the signaling systems. However that doesn't stop you using standard decoders to control the signals.

    Q.Do you want to buy in the control bits & pieces or are you prepared to have a go at building kits - you know the dark side is always looking for new recruits
    A. Buy in parts but I already have enough decoders for my points and signals.
    Where does your decoders take there power from - the track bus, or can they be powered from an external power supply ?

    My accy decoders - MERG Kits and Arduino units use an opto-isolator, so draw negligible current from the track bus, I supply them from a separate power supply (currently the 16V AC from a Duette, but will be replaced with an PC switched mode PSU)

    It would be worth going a shop / exhibition to try holding the handsets to see if they feel comfortable.

    I also have an Engineers throttle - the Cab06

    https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/Cab06-Engineer-Cab-with-LED-display-p38322086

    This allows me to move the hand set from location to location, and is a simpler unit not capable of making programming changes - handy for guests.

    Paul
     
  20. May 29, 2017 #20
    Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Thanks for all that Paul, I'll take all this on board and make a decision. I hope to get over to Digitrains this week and have a look/go with different controllers.I'll update this thread when I've been.
    CheersRon
     
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