Episode 106 18 The Gormo 3 Link Coupling Pt II

Discussion in 'The Collection' started by gormo, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Andy64

    Andy64 Full Member

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    Hi Gormo I'm new here and would just like to say thanks to you for your efforts. You are the reason I joined after watching your YouTube channel promoting this forum. Now where do I buy iron chain in N gauge
     
  2. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Toto, Gary and Andy,
    Andy.........chain in N gauge..???????......good luck with that mate.......:avatar::avatar::avatar::avatar:

    Yes thanks guys........don`t know why I put that long winded speech back there......guess it was just time to clear the air.
    I remember a long time ago being intimidated by the skills of excellent modellers in the hobby and thinking that I could never do that.
    I had these people on a pedestal and mind you,they deserved to be there.
    The thing that you realize, after you see these people cock up once or twice, is that they are just human like the rest of us. They have put in the time to learn and acquire skills, and after considerable experience and recognition, they pop up in modelling mags for the plebs, who think they are some sort of genii.
    Well the simple fact of the matter is that we can all improve and railway modellers are always learning and improving on what they can do. It goes with the hobby.
    So I just wanted to clear the fog and say to anyone who may be starting out in this hobby.....you can do it !!!!.....just keep listening and learning and one day people will be listening and learning from you. You will carry the baton handed down. That seems to be the way it goes in this hobby.
    There are...........I`m doin` it again.?????? :facepalm:

    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  3. Gary

    Gary Staff Member Administrator Golden Goat 2018

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    Absolutely spot on with your last post Gormo. :thumbup:

    When I think back, I started modelling again about 7, maybe 8 years ago, prior to reading your threads on RMweb and then YMRC. I learned from those that I held in high esteem as well. Allan Downes (RMweb, YMRC), Chubber (Doug - RMweb & YMRC), Phil C (YMRC), John Dew (YMRC) and many other modellers on various forums I frequented. I never thought that I would be modelling in a similar vain as those guys, (although I think I'm not there yet), but to be recognised by our local modellers and to be invited to exhibit, must mean I'm doing something right.

    I too have a lot more to learn, this is why I take part in various forums/groups, to learn from those who have been doing it longer than myself. I know I'm not the only one here that is part of some of the facebook groups out there, but I am learning from these groups as well. What I learn, I can share with every one here.

    P1MRC is great for this, I have learnt much and hopefully taught much and will continue to do so. I have to thank Toto for providing such a great platform for sharing the collective knowledge that has made P1MRC what it is today.

    Thanks Toto. :tophat:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  4. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    :avatar: you guys are reducing me to tears here and I don' have a crying emoji.:avatar: not bad for a forum that started off as a gang hut to keep a dozen or so guys together. We are very fortunate to have a great talent pool covering all aspects of the hobby.
    The various social media sites also act as a great introduction to the forum. The bottom line is ...... it's only what you want to make it.

    So any newer members looking in here, it doesn't matter how experienced you are, it's all about joining in and asking. We try to keep the style light and enjoyable as it should give the confidence to jump in and have a bit of fun. Once you find your posting feet, the confidence to either ask questions, make your own contributions will come. Everybodies participation is appreciated whether it' just a hi how are you doing or a post on one of your projects.

    Most of all ...... it should be enjoyable and a bit fun.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  5. Gary

    Gary Staff Member Administrator Golden Goat 2018

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    C'mon now Toto, we all know the only way to make you cry is to dish up a hot masala curry ! :avatar::avatar:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  6. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    :scratchchin: hmmm yes. I think someone had a word with the waiter whilst I was on the shunky

    He who laughs last ......... laughs loooooooooongest :avatar:
     
  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Very true Toto..........:avatar::avatar::avatar::avatar:
    Hey have you guys ever tried Twiglets from the UK.????......we got some for our party........holy snappin` duck poo...:eek::eek::eek::eek:.....it was light eating burnt wood.
    I`ve tried some awful stuff in my time but these things take the cake.........give me Toto`s curry anytime........I`m prepared to suffer the conseekwensus.
    :tophat::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:Gormo
     
  8. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    :avatar: I've tried them. They are an acquired taste. I can handle them but wouldn't go out my way for them. You could maybe dip them in your curry. :avatar::tophat:Welcome to uk snack foods :avatar:
     
  9. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    Another UPDATE on the system.
    Things have changed........sorry for any inconvenience but I keep tweaking this thing.
    More testing and thought has gone into this and I believe it`s coming down to a final configuration......famous last words I know...:scratchchin:
    I guess the main issue I`ve had is reliability for the LWB wagon. The standard short wheelbase wagons are fine and the bogie bolster also is fine.
    The GWR Siphon LWB wagon for the most part works fine.......maybe 95% ?.....however that other 5% has been bugging me. Constant testing has basically brought me back to the bogies creating too much sideways movement in the wagon body when negotiating some curves. There is no other answer and unfortunately, the buffer mounted connections for this type of wagon are not successful. I think it was Gary who suggested an arrangement working off the bogies, so that is what I have created today. Problem solved and surprisingly, it still looks pretty good. This new geometry now performs like a short wheelbase wagon.
    This is how I`ve approached it. I`ve used some 0.85mm gal wire and bent it to shape to form the hook at one end . A small disk magnet is mounted behind the hook.


    The other end has a similar arrangement to receive the chain.



    A coat of Matt Black helps to disguise the doin`s underneath the wagon



    And this is what it looks like ready to roll. The hook and or chain now move from side to side in between the buffers.





    The other thing I`ve been working on is setting myself up to produce these items more easily. I have made a jig to hold the chain in place. It also serves as a clothes line to hang the chain from when I want to heat it up to burn away the copper covering. The jig is just a couple of brackets screwed to some timber at an appropriate distance to stretch the spring and add the chain and retainer wire etc. It`s pretty obvious from the pics. The wire and spring can also rotate to help with things.




    Another benefit of the jig is that it allows me to easily add some fine wire across the top link of the chain to produce those special links that I used on the LWB wagons. I have stripped some suitable electrical wire and wind it around the top link three times and Superglue in place.


    That brings me to the next stage. In view of being able to produce these special links now quite easily, I have adopted them on the other wagons. They are mounted using M1 X 10 split pins and pushed up to the buffer beams for a better look.



    The next stage was to look at brake vans and locos for a suitable solution to coupling in either direction. The wagons don`t matter . They will all face one direction ( hook facing West..??) regardless of whether they are on the UP line or the DOWN line. The brake vans and locos need to work either way and consequently will become another compromise. They will work 50% like a standard 3 link set up and 50% like a Gormo system. They will have rigid chains, however some will need to be manually coupled by lifting the chain over a hook.
    I have one brake van done at the moment.
    There are no magnets in this wagon. It has a panel pin ( small nail ) hook facing upwards. The head of the panel pin is filed flat on the two opposite sides and the front and the back retain whats left of the head as two lips. These lips stop the chain from coming off the hook if the chain rides up the hook.


    A wafer thin donut of wiring insulation is slid over the back of the panel pin as a stopper to prevent the chain from sliding too far back towards the buffer beam. If it slid back it would not lift up properly to connect to an incoming hook of a wagon.


    This is how it looks if it has to be manually lifted. The incoming wagon is chain first, so therefore it had to be lifted onto the hook. If the incoming wagon were to come hook first , the chain on the brake van would simply connect up magnetically.




    So that`s where we are at the moment folks. I am really confident with this system now that the LWB was finally put to bed. I know it still has the fiddly aspect to it where the brake vans and locos are concerned, however one has to bear in mind that is approx. only 50% of the time they are handled and they are a small percentage of shunting moves. If every shunt of every wagon required lifting the chain onto the hook......even the rigid chain....I would say forget it.....this is rubbish. Brake vans and locos I can tolerate....:thumbs:
    The next issue to be looked at is dummy chains for the hook ends of the wagons. I will do another search on the net but I fear I will probably have to make them myself. It`s not that hard to do but being lazy it would be nice to be able to just buy some chain somewhere.??
    I also have a video to attach here, which goes over pretty much what I`ve written above in the Declaration of Independence.....:faint:



    :tophat:Gormo
     
  10. ed

    ed Full Member

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    Great compromise on the brake van Gormo :thumbup:

    Certainly looks to be much easier to use than the 'normal' three link system.

    Like the jig, ingenious :thumbup:


    Ed
     
  11. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Ed,
    Yes well the brake van had to be worked out. If I was just running end to end it wouldn`t matter. The brake vans could be set up same as the wagons, but on GCJ ,trains will come into the yard from the UP line and the DOWN line. What comes in on one line may be mixed with the stock from the other line and be sent back in the opposite direction. Not a problem until you come to your brake vans. They need to be able to be used anywhere in any direction......so that`s why I`ve adopted this method.
    It definitely is easier to use than the normal 3 link set up. Occasionally you miss the connection with the chain and the hook, but that happens with other coupling systems as well.
    I think whatever system you use, it`s best to standardize the couplings. This is where tension locks can let you down. You have Hornby old and new versions, Lima old, Mainline old, Bachmaan old and new, not to mention Farish, Dapol etc. All these brands couplings are tension lock but different sizes. If you have a mixture of these brands in your rolling stock they will all connect, sometimes with a bit of help, but they won`t always necessarily disconnect easily.
    Of course the easiest way to overcome the tension lock problem.....if you wish to continue with tension locks....is to convert them all over to the new small T/L couplings.
    Now if some of the rolling stock has NEM sockets, you may indeed finish up with tension lock droop, which means further modification to make everything work in any configuration.
    It is quite understandable that people become frustrated with this and just chuck it all in and go over to Kadees. Start from scratch in effect and make everything compatible.
    I was going down that road as you know with tension locks........using Brian Kirby`s method and adding a bit of my own. At least I could see an end to the compatibility problems and I was getting there with reliable connect disconnect, but now this 3 link thing has re-emerged in my consciousness and I`m enjoying it.
    It`s not for everybody with the hand of God looming over the railway every now and then, but you rarely see the hand of God struggle to connect with this system. That`s the big plus........if it`s not easy to use......why bother?........it can look good all day, but if it`s difficult to use it will become frustrating and take the fun out of operation.
    And I must say that I am enjoying operating the railway this was way...:thumbs:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  12. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    Here`s the latest with the couplings.
    I ordered some 0.91mm solid copper wire to have a crack at making my own non magnetic dummy chains for the wagons. Making the links is quite easy by the standard method of wrapping the wire around a former to create a long coil, then cut through one side along the length of the coil whilst it is still on the former. You can create a good number of links in no time, however you then have the task of joining them together.....no big deal...:)
    Now by adding the dummy chain over the hooks on some of the wagons I created a new problem. Not predicted but there nonetheless. The dummy chain interferes with the rigid chain whilst it is rising to connect with the hook. It will connect but it`s not consistent.
    Thinking caps on again........what am I doing wrong..????....:scratchchin:
    The answer is a matter of measurement, or spacing probably would be more accurate. If the hook does not protrude from the buffer beam far enough, the chain will fowl on the dummy chain on the way up......therefore the hook has to come out to a predetermined length. What I have arrived at, through trial and error, is to make the end of the hook flush with the end of the buffers. Sounds too much when you first hear it but the pic below shows what it looks like.........also in comparison with an old Mainline tension lock.


    DSC06247_v1.JPG

    So this had made things simple.......a new formula for setting up the system. The hook must protrude out from the buffer beam the same distance as the buffers. ....simple.
    With the chain on the opposite wagon secured up as close as possible to the buffer beam, the resulting spacing between the wagons is approximately the same as tension lock couplings or possibly a little less on average. This measurement is when the wagons are pulling. When the links are compressed when pushing, the spacing is less. The spacing can be reduced but the dummy couplings would probably have to go as coupling up would be awkward for the sake of looks. So again we compromise to win a battle. The wagons are spaced approximately as they would be with standard model railway couplings to allow dummy chains to be fitted at the hook end and at the same time allow the system to work properly.

    I have found the best compromise for looks is to take a little nick out of the top link and Superglue it to the sides of the hook and the buffer beam. If you hang it over the hook it looks odd and if you glue it under the hook it looks a little less odd , but odd nonetheless...???

    DSC06248_v1.JPG

    So onwards and upwards.

    To be fair I will show a comparison with a new small tension lock coupling. This is a fairly new Oxford wagon. Beautifully made with attention to detail but with the dreaded tension lock coupling.

    DSC06250_v1.JPG

    DSC06251_v1.JPG

    I will show you what I mean about mounting the dummy chain under the hook

    DSC06231_v1.JPG

    It just doesn`t look right to me.........anyway from the side it`s not too bad..???
    So below is the choice......which one do you prefer.??

    DSC06252_v1.JPG

    DSC06253_v1.JPG


    DSC06254.JPG

    So there you are folks.

    :tophat:Gormo
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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  13. ed

    ed Full Member

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    Looks a lot better than the tension lock Gormo :thumbup:


    Ed
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Staff Member Administrator Golden Goat 2018

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    Nicely sorted Gormo. Compromise is what railway modelling is all about. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  15. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Another excellent presentation Gormo :thumbs:.
    Personally I prefer the top link in line with the hook. The photos make the wagons look like gauge 3, so the couplings are cruelly large, so the link under the hook in reality may not be so ungainly in real life. Overall a huge improvement on tension locks whichever assembly is used!

    Cheer's, Pete.
     
  16. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Ed, Gary and Pete,
    Have to agree about the photos Pete........the cruel close up in effect.
    To the naked eye both the tension lock and the three link look OK using the three foot rule. Upon closer inspection however, the three links look better from my point of view. I agree that the link under the hook may not look so ungainly. In fact when it`s coupled up, you would be hard pressed to notice the difference.
    Trouble is that I know it`s there and it irks me a bit.........:avatar::avatar:........I know it`s minor point but it won`t sit easy with me so my preference at this stage is to use the link in line with the hook. It`s only slightly more trouble to fit but I prefer the look of it.
    By the way...those Oxford wagons will be a challenge......there`s not so much room as on the older wagons for magnet placement. The sub floor is held in place by the buffers actings as pins on each corner of the wagon. So it will be do it once and do it right.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  17. graemeo

    graemeo Full Member

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    Just viewed your first two videos, what a great idea Gormo. I picked up a few Lima and Hornby/Triang diesels and carriages at a junk sale two months ago for $5. They were definitely what you would call in "used" condition - clagged motors and broken couplings etc. I have just finish replacing a Lima motor with a CD deck motor and it works well. I have three more to do. I might give your coupling method a go later, rather than Kadees as most of the stock is British and the look you have created is excellent.
     
  18. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know if it would work as the hook wire will be pretty thin, but could you heat it cherry red and flatten the part where the link fits and drill a small hole through and fit the top link there?

    Cheer's, Pete.
     
  19. Beetleton MPD

    Beetleton MPD Full Member

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    "QUOTE - Gormo G`day Folks,
    Here`s the latest with the couplings.
    I ordered some 0.91mm solid copper wire to have a crack at making my own non magnetic dummy chains for the wagons. Making the links is quite easy by the standard method of wrapping the wire around a former to create a long coil, then cut through one side along the length of the coil whilst it is still on the former. You can create a good number of links in no time, however you then have the task of joining them together.....no big deal...:)"
    I have had a look through my 'stock-bins' for a suitable wire to make some dummy non-magnetic links but only found some fuse wire, you know the sort, 3 ratings 5, 15 & 30 amp wrapped round a cardboard former, well the 30 amp wire is 0.8mm dia., is flexible and non-magnetic. Using Gormo's 'wrap round former idea' I used a 2mm twist drill to make the coil. Cut each wrap to make a single link and gently squeeze each link to elonogate to a near prototypical shape. Close the ends of 2 of the links and feed a third link through them, Close this link and it becomes the middle of the 3 link coupling!!! Length about the same as the Magnetic 3-Link and attach by either of the methods that Gormo describes.

    In my opinion the Upper style attachment looks best and I do like the 'swinging' dummy coupling...
    Cheers, Martin


     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  20. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Good on you Graemeo...:thumbs:
    I think this method of coupling is best tried on old stock at first. It requires some surgery on the wagons and therefore better to get the method bedded in on something that is not too precious to start with.
    Good luck with it all.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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