Painting guide

Discussion in 'How to' started by Reidy, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Hi all

    I couldn't find a paint related thread- so here goes.

    This thread is for the experienced members to answer questions on painting models. Mods please move to a more appropriate location if necessary.
     
  2. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    First question!

    I have an airbrush and I've been researching acrylics and enamels for painting models. There's a lot of conjecture and personal opinion here. I have just finished a CW wagon and need a flat dark grey finish.

    Enamel or acrylic? What brand do you use? Tips for getting a good finish?

    Thanks

    Reidy
     
  3. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Reidy,
    Good topic to start off on the forum. :thumbs:
    I personally use both enamels and acrylics, some times on weathering projects a mix of both, as I did on the Lima wagon I weathered for the weathering competition.
    Where possible I always try and use acrylic's for all my wagon painting and detailing, why? Well several reasons, firstly the railway room is in the house and the smell of enamels tends to get the natives in the house, riled up....if you know what I mean :mad:
    I find clean up after easier and again with no lingering smells. After a bit of practise I'm finding that I can spray very fine detail easier on lower pressures.
    Availability, living in WA I can't get Phoenix paint sent over from the UK due to the posting laws, but acrylics can be obtained from anywhere.
    I have several brands but the bulk of my stock is from Vallejo, their surface primers in black and white are excellent as is their airbrush cleaning fluid, most paints can be used straight from the bottle, dispensed into the air gun one drop at a time making mixing of colours very easy.
    Drying time seems a lot quicker as well.
    I now only really use enamels on metal surfaces, weathering track, brass kits etc and occasionally from a rattle can.
    :thumbs:
    Will be interesting to see what others post here and hear their reasons for their choice.
    Thanks for starting, what should be a very useful topic:thumbup:
    Kim
     
    York Paul likes this.
  4. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Hey Kimbo

    Great info!

    No thinning seems like a great option after experimenting with artists acrylic and windex/IPA/H2O. What sort of price per bottle should I be looking at? I've heard some great stuff about Vallejo online so I might look at there range.

    Reidy
     
  5. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Reidy,
    We have to pay around $4.99 over here in Australia, but when I started I bought a job lot on uk eBay which cost me 2 pounds a bottle. If you type Vallejo into uk eBay I'm sure you will find plenty of sellers doing 10 x 17ml bottles for 20 pounds. I would recommend buying the bigger bottle for primers in black and white as you will use a lot of these two colour to lighten or darken any other colour, and as I said the airgun cleaner is excellent, I normally buy two bottles when I do an order. :thumbs:
    If you find a better deal then please let me know :thumbs:
     
  6. Gary

    Gary Staff Member Administrator Golden Goat 2018

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    Reidy, check out what Garry has at MRRC at Blacktown, if he has a limited supply, there is always Woodpecker at Pendle Hill, Casual Hobbies etc. All do online orders/postal deliveries.

    I have always used enamels and have only recently started to use acrylics. All my enamels are thinned with auto thinners, cheaper to purchase a 5L tin than a half litre bottle ! The acryllics I have used recently I have thinned down with IPA only. This enables quick drying times.

    As for using both paints on the one model. Acrylic undercoats work fine with enamel top coat, but acrylics don't work well on top of enamel undercoat.

    I used to paint my CWs, BCWs, GSVs, BSVs, RUs, Ks, S trucks to name a few with Floquil 'Grimey Black', which is hard to get hold of now. I'm sure there would be an equivilent in acrylics out there.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  7. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Thanks Gary

    Has anyone had experience with Vallejo's non-'Air' branded acrylics? Assuming they would need thinning?

    I'm liking the sound of acrylics for the lack of fumes alone. Although I've got a 20m air hose on my compressor which reaches anywhere in the house :avatar:

    I'll see if I can find a equivalent for the Floquil colour.

    Reidy
     
  8. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Equivalent is Vallejo Russian Uniform WW2...oddly specific.
     
  9. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Like Kimbo, when spraying I tend to use Acrylics indoors (and use a spray booth as well), brush painting what ever is available.

    Tamiya colours spray well, and so do Humbrol acrylics, but you will need to play with the amount of thinners to get a good finish.

    Primer I tend to use Humbrol No 1 grey acrylic primer thinned (on the current tin) 1 part paint to 7 parts thinner.

    My preferred thinner is Tamiya X20 acrylic thinner.

    [​IMG]
    For cleaning I use W5 Glass cleaner - similar to Windex.

    Drying times for Acrylics are minutes between coats, against hours / day for enamels.

    I bought from Ebay a bag of bottles

    [​IMG]

    I add the paint then thinner to the bottle using pipettes and mix, pop on the dropper top and the the screw top, so I can mix up a reasonable size batch, but dispense only a few drops at a time.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50PC-5-50ml-Empty-Plastic-Squeezable-Dropper-Bottles-Eye-Liquid-Dropper-Box-Case-/201908678079?var=&hash=item2f02b1edbf:m:mIWU0-7c2OzZdLz2mferrVA

    I use the 10ml versions, after all the Humbrol tinlets contain 14ml, so for primer 1ml paint + 7ml thinner will almost fill the bottle.

    Paul
     
  10. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Thanks Paul

    Do the thinned paints have a 'shelf life'? What consistency do you look for when thinning?

    Reidy
     
  11. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Reidy, this is worth a watch.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNU55qMSRP0
    :thumbs: Kim
     
  12. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Thanks Kimbo.

    I'll try the Vallejo Air series. I watched some more videos recommending to add a small stainless nut as an agitator to the bottle for mixing and to not shake the bottle up and down, rather round and round in a circular motion as to not introduce air and cause clots into the mixture.

    Looking forward to get my hands on some.

    Reidy
     
  13. Thin Controller

    Thin Controller Full Member

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    I have an unpainted carriage kit set to paint. Do I need to apply an undercoat first in order for the paint to stick, or can I apply it straight to the surface?
     
  14. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    From what I have learnt, a flat primer will save you a lot of trouble with acrylics

    Reidy
     
  15. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Moderator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Reidy,

    Pretty much all my painting is done with Vallejo Acrylics and although I started using the Air branded range (and I still have some) I very quickly went onto using the others - Model color/game color because they go a lot further for the money.


    What I have found is that some will mix with Tamiya thinners but others curdled when I used it so I now stick to Vallejo brand thinners.

    Which I buy in 200 ml bottles - I have Black, light grey, dark grey and red oxide.

    When mixing you are looking for the consistency of milk. a good test is to push some up the side of the pot/jar that you are mixing in and it should run down quickly but leave a residue on the side like when you have milk in a glass.

    I have found that the best thing to clean the air brush it run lots of warm water through after each use and you will very rarely need to resort to any kind of solvent. If you do get any acrylic that dries in the air brush most times leaving it to soak for about 15 minutes in hot water will shift it.

    I also use these for paint mixing - along with disposable medicine cups. They are really cheap but allow you to thoroughly mix the paint before adding it to the airbrush. I never mix anything in the cup.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Chatty

    Chatty Full Member

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    For those in Australia a very good supplier of all your painting needs is https://www.bnamodelworld.com. Very fast service.

    While your there you may want to look at the Lifecolor range of paints. They do a British Rail set and a weathering set.

    Two interesting books are Vallejo - Airbrush and Weathering Techniques and AK Interactive - Trainspotting.

    The Vallejo book is based on painting tanks and alike but has many transferable techniques. Whilst the AK Interactive book is about weathering railway models be warned it can only be called extreme weathering and when you see the price make sure your sitting down. Both are a good read.



     
  17. York Paul

    York Paul Full Member

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    Hi Reidy,

    Like Kimbo says acrylics sit better on plastic surfaces and enamels are more durable on nickel and brass etch pieces as long as a suitable grab primer is applied firstly. Once the initial finishing coat has been applied and sealed with a matte varnish you you can always over coat or weather using acrylics, just check the manufacturers data sheet on the product first... you don't want cessing or crinkle to occur, but then is disaster does strike you can always wash away acrylic with warm water before it cures. The air brush I use is an Iwata Eclipse and the compressor is an Iwata Studio Series Smart Jet.
    Cheers for now York Paul
     

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