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Decoders - variances
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 Posted: 24 Sep 2017 09:38
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Sol
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I had two different Gaugemaster decoders installed  into similar Bachmann DMU's and while they both did what I asked of them at the time with address and direction, now in setting CVs for maximum & mid speeds, both react differently.
One accepts CV's  5 & 6 OK, and run accordingly but the other- accepts changes & the command is noted as the loco jumps a bit as it should in programming, but no change to maximum speed .
 Tried all values from 1 - 255  with no luck.    I can even read the CV values.

 I did a decoder re-set and still the same, accepts CV values but ignores them though the address change worked OK.
So turfed it and replaced with a spare TCS MC2 decoder - works perfectly.

It reminded me of  a Bachmann decoder that would not accept one number - OK for numbers either side .

Never had this problem in my DC days ;)



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Ron

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 Posted: 24 Sep 2017 11:07
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Toto
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Very strange Sol, and disappointing. Are they relatively new or have you had them for some time. Not that it should make any difference. Maybe you could have sent it back ...... And claimed the postage.


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 Posted: 24 Sep 2017 12:11
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Sol
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Toto, I had them for well over two years now, maybe even longer.
If I didn't attempt to set speed limits, I would not have known that one was not quite upto scratch.



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Ron

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 Posted: 24 Sep 2017 13:15
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SMR CHRIS
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Sol have a look at CV 29 and make sure it is the same in both I have sound some decoders don't always set CV 29 when using Decoder pro when you start playing with speed control CV use a CV calculator to get the value needed for all the options you want and manually program CV29

The 2mm society has a super easy use one
http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm

Or you can just add up the numbers yourself.
Best of luck with it



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Chris

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 Posted: 24 Sep 2017 21:52
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Sol
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Thanks Chris.
The advantage of NCE is that one does not have to play with CV29 direct as all the bits of that CV are in English words.
I haven't got Decoder Pro organized and the computer in the train room is very slow- just good enough for a fast clock programme.



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Ron

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 Posted: 25 Sep 2017 03:12
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SMR CHRIS
Ozzy Rubber Gauger


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Sol wrote:
Thanks Chris.
The advantage of NCE is that one does not have to play with CV29 direct as all the bits of that CV are in English words.
I haven't got Decoder Pro organized and the computer in the train room is very slow- just good enough for a fast clock programme.


Yes the NCE is a walk through for the CV29 set up, but I find it also doesn't always set it up as you would expect/or correct. I'm sure it a decoder thing not the NCE as it occurs with decoder pro as well.
And I find I will have to go and enter the value into the Decoder manually, often find this with ESU decoders become inactive if set up with NCE walk through, had a case on the weekend 2 identical ESU pilot 4.0's owner installed in 2 XPT power cars, and tried to program with NCE pro cab, only difference one needed to go in reverse for normal direction, ie value 34-35 for the potions wanted, one worked the other didn't, I went thorough the steps with him all good but no go read back CV 29 and they weren't even close should than been only 1 apart but we had a random No in the 100's

Did the same with decoder pro and the same result the decoder would not take the info in the click and write. To give a correct CV29 value. Manually set CV 29 to CV 34 and it accepts the value ok no issues and then ran perfectly.

So it may well be worth selecting program CV select CV29 and set to the required value to see what it dose :thumbs:

Let us know how you go with the decoder be it a programing issue or a failed decoder issue would be good to know.



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 Posted: 25 Sep 2017 04:05
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Sol
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The decoder is sitting in a box right now- will be kept for emergencies but I will try it on the decoder tester.



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Ron

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 Posted: 25 Sep 2017 04:31
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Sol
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OK, got that decoder onto Tester, CV29 has 2 for 28/128 steps.
Read CV5 & 6 OK with values that was the same as the other decoder but ignores using them for speed control.
One of those weird electronic mysteries.



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 Posted: 25 Sep 2017 07:45
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SRman
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SMR CHRIS wrote: Sol wrote:
Thanks Chris.
The advantage of NCE is that one does not have to play with CV29 direct as all the bits of that CV are in English words.
I haven't got Decoder Pro organized and the computer in the train room is very slow- just good enough for a fast clock programme.


Yes the NCE is a walk through for the CV29 set up, but I find it also doesn't always set it up as you would expect/or correct. I'm sure it a decoder thing not the NCE as it occurs with decoder pro as well.
And I find I will have to go and enter the value into the Decoder manually, often find this with ESU decoders become inactive if set up with NCE walk through, had a case on the weekend 2 identical ESU pilot 4.0's owner installed in 2 XPT power cars, and tried to program with NCE pro cab, only difference one needed to go in reverse for normal direction, ie value 34-35 for the potions wanted, one worked the other didn't, I went thorough the steps with him all good but no go read back CV 29 and they weren't even close should than been only 1 apart but we had a random No in the 100's

Did the same with decoder pro and the same result the decoder would not take the info in the click and write. To give a correct CV29 value. Manually set CV 29 to CV 34 and it accepts the value ok no issues and then ran perfectly.

So it may well be worth selecting program CV select CV29 and set to the required value to see what it dose :thumbs:

Let us know how you go with the decoder be it a programing issue or a failed decoder issue would be good to know.
 When programming the unpowered car, the decoder often needs a resistance of some sort to simulate a motor loading before it will accept the programming. My answer for that is to program the two cars together first (e.g. the HST power car and dummy power car, or a DMU pair). Once the unpowered carriage has been programmed successfully, it may be removed from the track, and the powered car programmed as normal.

If the initial programming fails, swap the decoders; program the one intended for the dummy car first, then transfer it to the unpowered car, then program the powered car as before.

In a similar vein, I had one LokSound decoder that refused to accept any programming while installed in a Bachmann 4 CEP unit. I swapped it into a Hornby class 60 diesel, programmed it (the class 60 sounded most odd with electric multiple unit sounds!), then swapped it back into the 4 CEP unit. 

It is a bit of faffing around but at least it gets things going the way you want them to be.

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 Posted: 1 Oct 2017 14:47
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SMR CHRIS
Ozzy Rubber Gauger


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SRman wrote:
SMR CHRIS wrote: Sol wrote:
Thanks Chris.
The advantage of NCE is that one does not have to play with CV29 direct as all the bits of that CV are in English words.
I haven't got Decoder Pro organized and the computer in the train room is very slow- just good enough for a fast clock programme.


Yes the NCE is a walk through for the CV29 set up, but I find it also doesn't always set it up as you would expect/or correct. I'm sure it a decoder thing not the NCE as it occurs with decoder pro as well.
And I find I will have to go and enter the value into the Decoder manually, often find this with ESU decoders become inactive if set up with NCE walk through, had a case on the weekend 2 identical ESU pilot 4.0's owner installed in 2 XPT power cars, and tried to program with NCE pro cab, only difference one needed to go in reverse for normal direction, ie value 34-35 for the potions wanted, one worked the other didn't, I went thorough the steps with him all good but no go read back CV 29 and they weren't even close should than been only 1 apart but we had a random No in the 100's

Did the same with decoder pro and the same result the decoder would not take the info in the click and write. To give a correct CV29 value. Manually set CV 29 to CV 34 and it accepts the value ok no issues and then ran perfectly.

So it may well be worth selecting program CV select CV29 and set to the required value to see what it dose :thumbs:

Let us know how you go with the decoder be it a programing issue or a failed decoder issue would be good to know.
 When programming the unpowered car, the decoder often needs a resistance of some sort to simulate a motor loading before it will accept the programming. My answer for that is to program the two cars together first (e.g. the HST power car and dummy power car, or a DMU pair). Once the unpowered carriage has been programmed successfully, it may be removed from the track, and the powered car programmed as normal.

If the initial programming fails, swap the decoders; program the one intended for the dummy car first, then transfer it to the unpowered car, then program the powered car as before.

In a similar vein, I had one LokSound decoder that refused to accept any programming while installed in a Bachmann 4 CEP unit. I swapped it into a Hornby class 60 diesel, programmed it (the class 60 sounded most odd with electric multiple unit sounds!), then swapped it back into the 4 CEP unit. 

It is a bit of faffing around but at least it gets things going the way you want them to be.


Sorry missed this reply fortunately not relevant with the XPT.
Unlike the Hornby HST the Australian Auscision XPT come with 2 real power cars no dummy's with these one and for the price of a set you wouldn't want to be getting dummy's.

When doing installs like you are in sets with dummy cars that need decoders for lights sound etc, I set the decoders up on decoder testers I have a couple side by side so I can see how they react, what lights are working etc then do the install to the model.:thumbs:



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Happy Modelling down under
Chris

My Current model railway topic link
http://platform1mrc.com/view_topic.php?id=227&forum_id=5
My Flickr photo album
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74212179@N05/
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