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TimberSurf's Workbench

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by Timbersurf, Aug 15, 2018.

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  1. Jan 22, 2019 #21
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Hey, don’t be down at the results, as you say with some time and effort they can come good. No one else has one .. it’s a prototype and sometimes we have to have trial and error with a prototype.. learn from what went wrong and give it another go. If you hadn’t tried that way, you would never have known it wasn’t to bring the desired result you wanted.

    Good luck :thumbup:
     
  2. Jan 22, 2019 #22
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    You've got to try these things to find out though Timber. Satisfying as it often is to find a cheap household product that will do what a pricey modeller specific product does is great, but if it goes 't*ts-up' at least it's no great expense. Now you've 'Been there-Done that' with the gun silicone, you know not to bother with it next time. Saying that, was the silicone the more expensive "Sanitary sealant" type or just the cheaper standard stuff?
    Keith.
     
  3. Jan 22, 2019 #23
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Two part RTV silicon is about £20-40 a litre. Gun silicon can be had for about £3.50 a 310ml tube (£10 per litre). I tried some white stuff, but it was not pure silicon and stuck like crazy to the jetstar master, so after re-researching, twigged it needed to be stated as 100% silicon, which worked better, I am not sure the brand name versions (£7-8 a tube) would fair any better. It is very thick and needs to be pressed/worked into detail, not an issue for flat moulds, but probably not good for 3D moulds as it wont 'pour'. So for fine detail or 3D, I think I need to invest in two part RTV for the future, after all, its not miles more expensive, but for casting herculite 2D slabs, it's still a cheaper alternative, just limited in what you can do, see the successful results here.
     
  4. Jan 22, 2019 #24
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Now the other week I went to see my old boss, we used to both work in his model shop. He showed me some casting he had done from an old Kitmaster part - a bogie side frame. He had come up with something that the mould was like purple rubber (almost like a pencil eraser to feel and flex) but retained the detail. I will have to ring him and find out what it was... knowing Eddie, it won’t have been expensive but was great for casting parts.

    Give me a day or so.
     
  5. Jan 22, 2019 #25
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hmm I don't think any of us "resin casters" are laughing at your test pieces Timber, I certainly am not because I wouldn't be so arrogant as to do such a thing, however I sense your frustrations and know exactly what you are doing wrong and what it is that you need to be doing in order to achieve a successful outcome in this process. Firstly I would suggest forget any notion of shortcuts in saving money using home DIY and household products because they are not the correct medium to use for what you want to achieve and will only cost you money in the long term... but that's your choice. Secondly I think the master you want to replicate is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too complex a structure to consider suitable for a one piece mould, you must remove the parts that have caused the negative investment "locking" your master fast in and preventing any successful release. These smaller items must be cast as separate pieces from the main body section which must be cast as a two part plaster mould jacket supporting an inner rubber sleeve, this will collect and pick up on every detail of the master object mirroring such in the cast object. You may wish to spend a little more time reworking the surface of the master until you feel satisfied it is without flaws. No amount of dremel or polishing tool action will ever recover this situation without eroding into the finished surface of your current master and causing it to move shape, the result of that will be a load of hard and unnecessary work for you. The aim of this process is to make each side of the object in equal proportions. Good luck
    :thumbup:
     
  6. Jan 22, 2019 #26
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Paul, I hear what you say and of course you are right. You are all advocating that gun silicon and fine 3D casting in 'one go', is a poor combination, which it is and I was fairly sure would be the result if I tried.

    If I may explain with an example:-

    Take a certain masking product, that I needed some time back, that costs £4 in the shop (I don't have any nearby) and a total of £8 to have it posted, if bought online. On principle, I refused to shell out that much for a teeny bottle. It works perfectly, as does my alternative. How much does mine cost? Very little if you borrow my idea, but for me, probably about £25 if I tote up all the chemicals (glues etc) that I bought to experiment with to find an alternative!!!
    That's actual cost is not the point! I did not line the pocket of a conglomerate and the postal service/carrier :). I am not on a crusade, nor would I decry buying from the smaller companies struggling to carve a business out in this hobby. Far from it, I applaud them for doing the hard work of research AND bringing the fruits of their labours to market. (there may be some envy in there!) I just see an opportunity to find a cheap and readily available alternative!


    I am aware and have researched all the methods you have mentioned, it's a bit like glues/scenic material/buildings etc, they are all available over the counter and produce fantastic results, just watch the YouTubes finest diorama makers and model makers, they all quote the off the shelf products they use. Anyone can buy proprietary materials that have been suitably researched before bringing to market!
    It's hard to describe what exactly drives me, but simply buying solutions is rarely on my do list, the word, 'alternative' springs to mind often, doing it the hard way and learning from direct experience is another. In some ways, some may say I don't take my modelling seriously, I guess I don't, I know I am a jack of all trades and master of none, my modelling will always only be so so, but I'm happy with a level below exhibition standard. I think it's more about the journey and less about the result.

    I set out to try 3D rotamoulding with a cold casting process, with a hopelessly over complicated 2 open sided master! Failure was assured! Yet I have two similar castings to the master, sitting on my bench.
    Is this a new and innovative process for others to follow?
    ABSOLUTELY NOT! :avatar::avatar:

    When I said you will all be laughing at the results, I meant with me, cus they are terrible! :lol:

    If I had wanted to make a pristine jetstar model, I would get up to speed in 3D and print it on a £500 resin printer, don't get me wrong, I would love too, but if I bought one, it would take over my modelling life! Then if I bought a CNC milling machine so would that, then there is the lathe I want....so it goes on. I must resist and keep having fun doing the impossible with my £3.50 silicon gun :giggle:

    Enough rambling, the point is, I enjoy being different and experimenting, I do lots of research before I tackle anything, then take my own route (usually not mainstream :hammer:) and invariably one of the more difficult route, why? Because I choose to :facepalm:
     
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  7. Jan 22, 2019 #27
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    That is very true, the journey and experimentation is just as important an experience as making the end product, often something that is totally overlooked so I'm glad you put the spotlight on that aspect of our hobby. We are each on a learning curve as you'll notice in the current challenge of striving to attain a best printing result in order to showcase the new Class 26 and 27 loco kits... its a case of trial and error and constantly pushing boundaries to get the best outcome. :thumbs: A am sure we will all achieve in each of our projects.:tophat:
     
  8. Jan 22, 2019 #28
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Everybody to their own. Yorkie also has the added bonus of having a degree in arts. I had to have a poxy degree in Building Economics & Quantity Surveying ........ that won't help build brass kits. :avatar: The thing is, it's great to have such a wide and diverse skill and knowledge base on the forum that can be tapped into ..... ( not me ). Take advantage.

    Toto
     
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  9. Jan 22, 2019 #29
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Re your Maskol, pva glue also works well!

    I even once used it to mask an area on a metal model bus when I paint stripped it- it was the fine mesh grill print on the radiator..

    It worked brilliant... infact it worked too well.. when I came to peel it off it brought that section of paint off with it as there was nothing else around it to still grip to :faint:

    They who never made a mistake, never made owt! :hammer::cheers:
     
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  10. Jan 23, 2019 #30
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Lumsdonia experimental jet powered train

    Progress will be slow, but I have filled most of the chips and missing bits yesterday and today. I have decided to use plan B for the side vents, they will be removed and replaced with slit 8mm tube so as to make them all uniform across all 4. What would the best glue be for attaching the resin cast to the plastic HST body? (Can't say I have ever glued cast resin before!)
     
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  11. Jan 23, 2019 #31
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    If you fitted these new vents with two small lugs which located into drilled holes on the bodyshell then Araldite would do the trick and if you made a template to set the lug and fixing holes the locating position would be equal on all four units.:thumbs:
     
  12. Jan 24, 2019 #32
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Its a bit late to introduce location lugs, but yes, I could make a little jig to set the mounting position in each case. I had araldite in mind as one of two possible alternatives, I am guessing it would be very compatible with the resin, not so sure about injection moulded plastic, might do a test tonight to prove both sides.
     
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  13. Jan 25, 2019 #33
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    A little test with Araldite proves it sticks well to plastic and the resin. Still lots of filling and sanding to do, but it is slowly coming into a shape I am happy with. I think I have also found a perfect former to help shape the window orifice so that both are uniform and identical.
     
  14. Mar 26, 2019 #34
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Lumsdonia experimental jet powered train

    Although the valley project has taken over the whole railway room:giggle:, this project has not been forgotten! I keep coming back to it a few times a week for 10-20 mins and do a bit more filling, another coat of primer, a bit of filing and a bit more sanding:facepalm:

    All the electrics are built, engine bodies modified, coaches stripped of paint, they all are just waiting for me to get the ends in a fit state to do a final paint, then things can really start progressing. Once I have the ends in a smooth condition, I can fit the windows and glue to the main engine body, then after a final joint filling session, we might see some progress!
     
  15. Apr 4, 2019 #35
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Lumsdonia experimental jet powered train

    Finally a bit of movement! I am relatively happy with the finish of the engine front, so have glued them to the HST body. I have also started the two part gluing of the side tube air intakes. The front glazing has been fitted and work has begun on making chairs for the drivers too.
    Next I need to fill the gaps around the join and sand down before the fun of painting begins.
    Still much to do, need to design and print decals (that will be another first) and mask up multi colours of the sides, add cab light, assemble and test electrics, weathering and something else I have bound to have forgotten at this stage!
     
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  16. Apr 5, 2019 #36
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Tim,

    Re transfers aid your designing on a computer, I went through this about 20 years ago (whilst working in a model shop)

    For the detail, we drew the item at 10 times over scale... so if it was 10mm we drew at 10cm on the box on the screen. This allowed good quality drawings and not a pixelated drawing...

    We also found then it was better to import the saved file (we found BMP worked better than JPG which added “noise” a kind of fuzzing around whites and edges where it would add grey dots in. The Bitmap bmp files don’t do this.)

    It was then imported in to Microsoft word. Each file imported was rescaled at 10% so it was back to a 1/1 ratio, but still held the smooth detail. (It was also found that it printed a crisper image via word than printing them in a paint program)

    Set your print settings in word to the highest quality... we used colour laser printers then (and now) which doesn’t need a carrier film.

    What you do need to watch out for is the fact that without having any white, the transfers are transparent, unless you have the white backed sheets. This has its own issue though of being a “white panel” if just text or a coloured box over it, which may still show a white edge when trimmed from the sheet to slide on to your model..

    The only other option is to find someone with an Alps printer which do print white!!!
     
  17. Apr 5, 2019 #37
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Cheers Andy
    Wisdom noted
    I have two methods to try. I have some transfer paper and I will also try the varnished paper method. Results as always will appear here!
     
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  18. Apr 8, 2019 #38
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Lumsdonia experimental jet powered train

    A bit more done, glazing is in and masked off, drivers and seats have been made, front ends glued to body and air intakes fitted. Needs a bit of filling and fettling, then I can start on the base paint.
     
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  19. Apr 15, 2019 #39
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Been working away, so progress is slow. The JETSTAR is finally in a filled and sanded down state, to be able to start painting, this means it will rapidly come together, but unfortunately, redecorating of the front room has now bubbled to the top of the list, so inevitably, modelling will take a back seat :(! I also need to rearrange and tidy the modelling room to create the space for the third module so that will also impact the build rate :rolleyes:. Ho hum
     
  20. Apr 15, 2019 #40
    Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    Still a lot more filling and sanding to do yet in this picture

    Jet Star BIP 08.jpg
     
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