Lower Thames Yard

Hi All,
Even though there is no layout yet to show you, I have plenty of things on the go so I am taking the plunge and starting a thread for my up coming layout Lower Thames Yard.

Lower Thames Yard will be an 00 gauge code 100 tracked round and round double track DCC Layout using Kaydee couplings, in a dedicated, existing, 12ft x 8ft room, which is insulated, lit and heated.
The layout is based on the relief lines and High Wycombe Branch junction just to the west of Maidenhead Station on the WR main line. A reduced version of Maidenhead Yard will be included but is space limited.

It will operate in three time frames 1960/2 (when I was train spotting), 1990/2 (when I travelled on NSE a lot), and 2014/16 (because I like the new GwR livery and the class 800s. Also this is the latest time before the dreaded overheads spoilt the scene!)
My main interest is in operation and scenic development. I am not a base board builder (my wife will testify to my lack of woodworking skills even with flatpacks!!). Neither have my past efforts at track layer, or stock painting been successful, so those activities will be undertaken by others.

So what will the layout be like?
Sitting at my operating position, with the track at eye level, I can see down trains appear from my left from behind station buildings, sweep round a flat curve towards me, then either continue along the relief line to disappear behind a row of houses on an elevated ridge, or divert into the down relief loop, or turn right past me onto the High Wycombe branch, pass in front of the above mentioned houses then disappear through a road over bridge.

The track plan is almost complete and construction will start next month.

Once the constructing company's track plan is finally agreed by me, the design will be mine and I can share it on the thread.

Next time I aim to update you on where I am on Loco chipping, signaling and some pics of stock constructed.

Enjoy your modelling!

Cheers
Paul

 

You raise a good point Paul!
So let me give you a picture of my approach to the buildings. I should also say that this will be a railway that never leaves home, and is unlikely to get many visitors apart from non railway aware friends and family!

Firstly with regard to the railway buildings:-
Fortunately many of the railway buildings remained substantially the same from 1960 until 2016. I intend to ignore the fact that the Branch Platform Overall roof was removed in 2014 as it forms part of my scenic block for the tracks heading towards the fiddle yard! The signal box at the western end of the up relief/branch platforms was in position from 1963 to the mid 70s so will be a removable building as I am moving the resignalling which bought it in to replace the middle signal box from 1963 to 1962.
The Goods Shed I am moving from a through line in the yard where I have no room for it, to a siding off of the branch where it will form part of the scenic break in front of the overall roof! I am stretching its life from a removal late 90s/early00s to still being in place in 2016. The station itself, is only portrayed by the buildings beside the approach road and they still exist. Decorating them will be a problem, and I may choose fictitious neutral colours!

Moving to the non railway buildings:-
First, I must explain that the central operating well is edged all round (even in front of the fiddle yard), by roadways. Grenfell road (real road!) runs from the foot of the station approach road round to the bridge where it crosses the Wycombe branch. From a junction at the bridge it is joined by High Town Road (real road!) which runs in front of the left side of the fiddle yard to join King Street, another real road, that then runs round to the right to join Grenfell Road at the foot of the station approach.
My compromises:-
In reality King Street has been pedestrian since the 80s(?), which I am ignoring.
While most of the buildings in Grenfell Road and High Town Road present in the 60s still exist, this is less so in King Street and particularly around the station approach. I will start with 1960s buildings and decide on modernization later.
The modern wide dual carriageway bridge for King Street under the railway does not in my world exist! In the 60s it was narrower, but portraying any version of it seems too difficult! So I have invoked Rule 1 and ignored it!
My station approach is flat instead of sloping away from the station buildings, but I keep the visible part of the railway on an embankment by sloping Grenfell Road down away from the King Street/Station Approach junction, to run on the flat in front of the Branch Junction area and then climbing again, but more steeply than in reality to the Wycombe Branch bridge.

Further development.
I may at a later stage build hinged covers for the fiddle yard and its approach, so that more of the town can be portrayed!

I hope you can see how I am dealing with the time span through which I aim to model?
I have deliberately left signals out of the above, they will get there own posting in a while.

If you think I have left out something major, please tell me?

Best regards
Paul

 

Hi all,

I had intended to talk in this post about the signals for Lower Thames Yard, and it is true I spent this afternoon writing up a schedule of the signals for the layout.
However, I thought some details about the trains I intend to run might be interesting to a wider audience.

So in the post I will discuss some of the key trains for the 1962 version, then in future posts I will revue the trains for 1992 and 2016.

To give you a feel for the trains in 1962, the following is a run down of the trains, that to me, define the service in 1962 and differentiate it from other stations between Paddington and Reading.

Firstly there was the early morning Reading to Princes Risborough via Maidenhead parcels.

This train left Reading on the relief Lines and reversed at Maidenhead where the loco ran round and then proceeded up the branch to Wycombe where it joined the GW&GC joint to Princes Risborough.

The engine then returned light engine via Maidenhead to Slough shed.

There is no equivalent train in the opposite direction. Instead the various vans were emptied at various points on the route and then returned to Maidenhead attached to various passenger trains.

The vans were gathered at Maidenhead and then returned to Reading on the evening Maidenhead to Reading parcels.

Another interesting train that has no obvious return tripwas the morning Oxford to Slough fish train which brought in fish vans off of the overnight trains from Aberdeen and Hull via the GC line which had been dropped off at Oxford.

These were dropped off at stations between Reading and Slough to be emptied.

The empties returned in ones and twos via pick up freights to Oxford either via Reading or the Wycombe and Thame branches. There were evening fish empties form Swindon to the North East which picked them up from Oxford. So it is likely that the vans took 3 days for the round trip and did two round trips in a week.

Maidenhead had interesting workings of GWR and later class121/2 DMUs. Through the 50s and early 60s the unique 3 car GWR Diesel set started from Reading in the early morning. It headed to Slough and then returned through Maidenhead heading for Newbury. It then returned to Reading and did more trips on the Newbury line during the day. Later, or when the GWR set was out of action a variety of sets might be substituted such as two 121s with a 117 trailer between, or just 2 121s or a cross country DMU set.

Another interesting DMU set started from Slough in the rush hour as a class 121 plus a trailer. The set spent its day between Maidenhead and Wycombe. Some trips comprised the set plus trailer, then as things got quieter it stabled the trailer at Maidenhead and did some trips as a single car. On one of them it picked up a parcels van at Maidenhead, and took it to Wycombe. It returned to Maidenhead with a second parcels van which it left at Maidenhead to be taken forward on the evening parcels to Reading described above. Having dropped the parcels van at Maidenhead it picked up its trailer again for the early evening trips along the branch. Finally it returned to Slough in the early evening.

While most of the local trains along the Paddington to Reading line used the class 117 DMUs the morning and evening trains to and from Maidenhead, Bourne End, Reading and Oxford were steam hauled.

Also through the day the trains along the branch apart from the trips of the 121 and trailer were steam hauled.

Additionally in the morning Maidenhead saw several LEs from Slough heading to pick up coaches from Maidenhead and Bourne End and to shunt at Twyford and Maidenhead . The reverse happened in the evening although the returns happened over a longer period than the morning starts.

I hope the above gives you a flavor of the trains I intend to run on Lower Thames Yard?

Have fun, enjoy your modelling,

Best regards
Paul

 

Just found time for posting a few odds and ends:-

First the Bad news:-
Collected four locos from having some of my stock sound chips fitted this morning from Anthony at AGR, to find that one hadn't been done. It was a Heljan Class 33 and one bogie is suffering from The dreaded rot! So in the short term will swap the chassis with that on one of my two blue livery 33s that I am intending to sell having scrapped the 1977 version of the layout. Then try to find a bogie or chassis from someone else who has a loco with the same fault to enable me to sell the second loco whole!

The Good news:-
Not paying for the one Chip fitting, gave me funds towards a Bachmann Fitted Toad , Acton RU, for one of my fitted freights. Just have to decide whether to keep the unbranded toad this replaces or not?

Otherwise got in the post the first Bachmann times with the new style "British Railways Announcements". Not sure about this approach yet, but at least we still get the works report giving an idea of what stage items are at. Had thought this might be dropped! With the 94xx only showing under "Livery Samples" given the current situation in China, looks like this is still a good few months away.

The first 117s and 121s are supposed to be on the way to us, but have they got out of China?

I suppose an all round delay is no bad thing, it gives everybody time for "wallet recovery"!

Cheers to you all
Paul

 

Andy, a bit more detail on my crock Heljan 33:-
The problem was one bogie. It looks fine, but instead of just swiveling it moves laterally as well. Anthony at AGR who was doing the work told me that it was the pivot and its connection to the loco chassis that had gone.

Keep my fingers crossed yours are ok!

Cheers
Paul

 

Its time to take a look at the trains for the 1992 version of the layout.

1992 marks the changeover between the first generation DMUs and the second generation.

So around this time a number of sets were made up at short notice to substitute for those that had broken down and were not worth repairing. Others were needed to fill the gaps left (just as now!) by the late delivery of new 2nd generation DMUs
So I will have a number of oddities including a 3 car set consisting of two 121s with a TC from a 117 in-between. Another set will be class 117 DMBs and DMS with a class 101 TC in between.
These will be contrasted with a Class 166 in as delivered condition representing the new order.

Oxford trains will be represented by Mk1 and Mk2 sets behind Class 50s and Class 47s. There will be more 50s than there really were in 1992 simply because I like them more than Class 47s!

Long Distance workings will of course be in the hands of HSTs although there will be a non prototypical presence of Blue/Grey sets.

Specials will include the Royal Train, steam hauled excursions and a Post Office train.

What about parcels and freight?
Parcels will be class 31 and 37 hauled, with a mixture of blue ,blue/grey and RES, bogie vans.
Although they had in reality gone by 1992, a 128 will appear on local parcels.
Local freight will only be represented by the short 37 hauled HEA coal trains from Didcot to the London area.

Main line freight will be classes 47, 56, 59, and 60 hauled, their trains represented by a sets of Speedlink mixed wagons, sets such as Mendip stone and Bogie Oil tanks, and engineers trains which will mainly be traditional wagons such as Grampus.
Specials will include Nuclear Flask trains and Weedkiller specials.

I hope the above demonstrates that 1992 on the WR main line has a lot more to offer than Toothpaste colour NSE locals and Intercity HST sets?

Happy modelling
Paul

 

Hi all,

In this posting I am taking a look at the most modern version of the layout, which will portray the 2015/16 period.

This is the least developed version of the layout for the simple reason that it is the most recent one to be developed. Up to last year the "modern" version of the layout was destined to be portraying 2007/8. However this was a decision taken around 2009, when the chosen period was "modern".

Since then, things have moved on and the advent of the current GwR "green" livery together with the advent of the class 800s which I really like the sleek lines of!

The only disadvantage of portraying a really modern version of the line was that it coincided with the arrival of the dreaded overheads. While I was prepared to make some changes between the running sessions of the different eras such as changing buildings, motor vehicles, railway rolling stock and a few infrastructure items; installing and removing the overhead gantries , wires etc. was something I could not contemplate.

So I chose a time when a few early 800s were around running on diesel. This time had the benefit that it was during the changeover from the First "Neon" livery to the GwR "green", so that my neon liveried items bought for 2007 could be kept.

For both this era and my 1992 version of the layout I will run a couple of steam or Heritage diesel hauled Mk1/Mk2 carriage trains, one in each direction.

Initially, with the low number of GwR green available, I will put up with running some trains that are not used in the Thames Valley such as the class 158s. Later, I may trade such items in depending on what the trade decides to offer. More specialized trains will include Pullmans in both modern and traditional liveries.

On the freight side the Class 66, of which I have a number, reign supreme, although some will have to have a livery change! Classes 59,60, 68, and 70 make appearances although I have yet to get any 68s or 70s. I have quite a few of the modern boxes and hoppers, although once I do a timetable I will probably need more.

Other older types will appear on infrastructure train, and measurement trains will make an appearance.

I mentioned earlier the need to change some items between the different eras of the layout. One problem of multiple eras is the changes in the infrastructure to provide and support the services that the railway provides. A particular difficulty is the reduction of sidings needed. S, so this discussion will have to wait o I have come up with scenarios for the continued use of the 1960s sidings in the other two eras.

However, there is sufficient "meat" to look at in this area to fill a posting of its own at a later date.

So, as I develop this version of the layout further I will post updates on what is happening.

Enjoy your modelling

Best regards
Paul

 

Hi all,
I went to the Milton Keynes Club Exhibition on Saturday.
Lots of tempting goodies on offer such as the Locomotive Portfolios books on various GW Classes at £10 off all and even £15 off some!
I managed to keep my card in my wallet considering pending expenditure on the layout front.

I did however surrender to half price S&T wagons and the recent Hornby sound wagon from a certain Gloucestershire retailer.
Otherwise I bought two books:- Goods and Freight by John Vaughan with lots of colour photos from the 60s through to the early 2000s at 90% off the £30 list price and a secondhand Freightmaster for 2012 which cost me £2.50 (list price £15.95) from the RCTS stall.

Show was I thought up to their usual standard, and I welcomed additional seating in the halls (getting old I'm afraid!!).
I particularly enjoyed Much Murkle, so below are a few pics I took.

Best regards
Paul

 

Hi all,
There are a number of concerns in operating multiple periods on a layout.

But I don't think there is much difference between two periods 10 years apart and my three, the first two 30 years apart and the second and third which are 24 years apart.
Alternatively, if you are going to have two periods just a few years apart, I think you might as well have one period with an elastic time slot.

As soon as you decide to have multiple time eras then you are committed to a certain amount of work in doing a change over. So while I will have some 30 trains to change over, but I only plan to do a changeover say once in three months.

Yes, there will be other items to change, but if you choose your area carefully, most buildings, for instance, can remain the same, although things like shop fronts will change. It is sensible to avoid the larger chains which over the years, amalgamate, go broke, or move premises. Posters and street lights I am avoiding as far as possible, and vehicles IMHO are quicker to change than rolling stock.

So in my interpretation of Maidenhead there will only be one row of buildings that need to change drastically. As these are low relief they can be quickly picked up and moved!

Luckily, from 1962-2016 the majority of signals were colour lights although I am stretching things a little as in fact the first version of colour lights only came in in 1963!

The branch is more difficult as this retained semaphores until the early 70s. So I am having two sets of removable signals made for the branch area which is at the front of the layout. Then the semaphores in place for 1962 will be removed and replaced by colour lights.

In a later post I will go into the details of how the two sets of signals are changed and operated.
I will also post more on changing periods later.

Best regards
Paul

 

Good Evening all,

Writing this is as near to modelling as I have got this weekend as have been on Family duty!

Its our eldest sons birthday today and younger son is down from the wilds of Flintshire with his family.
So yesterday was 10 pin bowling, lunch at Frankies and Bennys, then chilling out watching the France/Wales rugby at eldest son's.
The least said about the match the better, especially as Welsh daughter in law was not amused by it, even less so when her 5 year old daughter said she wanted France to win!!
Today we hosted lunch for 9, and just managed to get cleared up for the England Ireland match, a much better affair (and not just because England won!).

We have just finished loading the second wash into the dish washer and packing away the clean first load.
Just enough energy left to complete these notes and answer a few emails before bed.

Will post something on modelling during the week.

Keep smiling
Paul

 

So finally I have time to post something on my progress with my Lower Thames Yard layout, and I thought it time to talk about signals:-

Modelling three different eras can be tricky when it comes to signals.

Luckily, by application of Rule 1 I can bring forward the 1963 colour light signal scheme on the Slough to Reading main and relief lines to 1962. I can by application of the same rule keep the same colour light signals through 1992 and on to 2016!
However, the High Wycombe branch is a bit trickier, as semaphores remained until the early 70s. So I came up with the idea of having swappable signals for this area. Semaphores which I can unplug and colour lights that will plug into seperate but adjacent holes. The new Dapol signals looked just what I wanted.

Planning progressed fine until I heard that the Dapol signals were not as good at being taken out and put back again as was initially suggested. Dapol told one modeler that they were not actually intended for repetedly taking out and putting back!
So I then looked around for someone to make custom signals that could withstand repeated taking out and putting back again.
After a period of investigation I have settled on proposals put forward by Stephen Freeman.

These, while a bit more expensive than the Dapols will do what I want and have the advantage of as being closer to the original signals than the Dapols. The only problem is finding close up photos of some of the signals.

So currently I am getting my head round DCC signal operation with the aim of eventual computer control.

I am reducing the number of operational signals by limiting working signals to those whose operation can be seen from the operating and viewing area. While semaphores can be seen to operate from back as well as front, colour lights can only be seen from the back if you are operating in subdued light conditions, which is not something I intend to do!

Now I have the tricky task of drawing large scale plans to show the positioning of the signals and therefore the positions of their fixing holes. This is not easy as the track plan, while allowing most of the movements of the prototype , is actually different and the spacing of points differs from the prototype!

Some of the spacings are quite tight so I need to ensure that trains, particularly overhangs of bogie coaches on curves will not strike signals particularly the junction signals.

Happy modelling,
Best regards
Paul

 

Hi All,
Compromises or Rule 1?
The bad weather this week keeping me in the house and away from the railway room I decided to work on the working timetables for the layout. Doing this reminded me of the consequences of compromises we make in modelling and the implications of “Rule 1”!

We all have to make compromises in our layouts, and we regularly claim “Rule 1” to cover doing what we want rather than what prototype dictates.
However, it seems to me that the two can have an area of overlap.
So having thrown that hand grenade into the arena, I’ll explain some of my compromises, some of my “Rule 1” decisions and a situation where I found they overlapped!

Compromises.
As soon as you try to realistically depict a 4 track mainline in a 12ft x 8ft space even when it is a dedicated space you are bound to make compromises.
The first I made, but only after putting up several test plans on the forum for comment, (and getting plenty of comment!) was that 4 tracks didn’t work. So I settled for the relief tracks and a branch junction and ignored the main tracks.
This worked because study of a working timetable revealed more variety and interest in the relief lines and branch than in the procession of expresses on the mainlines particularly in the periods I wanted to model.
But I still will run some expresses such as my favourites, the Cornish Rivera Express and the Cathedrals Express (yet more compromise!)

The next was to not have a station, or at least not any platforms, just the station buildings as a scenic break at one side of the layout.
This was made for two reasons. Firstly, again, considerations of space, but also because it got round the problems of platform furniture changes between my chosen periods.
Space considerations confirmed a decision I took a long while ago to have a maximum train length equivalent to 5 off 70ft carriages and a tender loco.

Rule 1
One of the big rule 1 decisions I made was that rather than sticking strictly to my stated years for the three periods of the layout, I would flex things slightly.
Thus in the early period for instance, I will use a 1960 timetable but allow rolling stock built up to late 1962 so that I could run Western Class diesels.
In the middle period I will run a class 117 DMUs in the GWR centenary livery of chocolate and cream alongside the late 1992 introduced Class 166 in NSE livery.
In the modern period I will run class 150s and class 143s in “Neon” livery alongside Class 166s and class 158s in gWr livery. Of these only the Class 166s are accurate for the Thames Valley lines!

Compromise or “Rule 1” or a combination of both?
In explaining this situation I must start by saying that one of my aims in operating this layout is to limit handling of stock and locos as far as possible to the sessions when I remove one period’s stock and locos from the layout and replace it by those of another period.
I should also say that I plan to run operating sessions at approximately double time speed and for around 2 hours. So my first session might be on a Monday morning 10.00 to 12.00 and use the timetable for 1962, 4am to 8am. The next day I might run 12.00 midday to 4.00pm and so on. Probably one every couple of months I might change to another of my 3 eras.
Realistically my 2 hour sessions might have a coffee break around halfway through, depending on what the timetable allows!

One of the problems of running a mainline layout is that mainlines in reality use a lot of rolling stock sets and locomotives!
You may have enough stock and locos, but fiddle yard capacity is another matter, even if, as I plan , there will be a lower level fiddle yard.

So my compromise is to run some trains round the layout a number of times in a controlled and timetabled way (Yes, every once in a while I will just play trains!!) . I will do this either by running them on consecutive trips (for instance while I am carrying out shunting moves) or with other trains circulating between their trips. This is easy to get away with when using Mk1, 2, or 3 coaches on passenger trains and in the recent eras with block trains but more difficult to be convincing in the 60s era, when there were few block train freights and one freight was usually noticeably very different from the next, even if you intersperse other trains with a particular freight!

The idea I am working on is selective shunting. Under this, freight trains have up to 3 sections of 5 wagons each and a brake van.
So a train on, say, its first anticlockwise run round has two 5 wagon sections A, and B plus a brake van. On its second run round the train enters the right hand end of the up loop and halts in the loop. It then backs section B and the brake van into a siding off the loop.
In a second siding off the loop is a section C and a brake van of different type to the first brake van. The train picks up this section and brake van and continues on its way.
Later another train drops off a section and brake van and picks up section B and brake van, while on a later circuit the original train drops off sections A and C and a brake van, and picks up the section and brake van dropped by the second train. And so on…..

Now is this compromise or “Rule 1”??

Cheers
Happy modelling
Paul

 

God for you Ron!
True you can run any stock you like, but to be realistic, goods are on the thin side, and only for demonstration, so heritage is not for me.

However, it would be a much poorer hobby if we all liked or modelled the same thing!

Regards
paul.

 

Morning All,
Having explained in an earlier post how I intend to run my layout sessions I thought some details on one of them would be of interest.

The first session covers the four hours 5am to 9am and the first two hours (one hour in real time) go like this:-
Remember, there will be no Main Line tracks in this layout!

0506:- a class 9 empties arrives on the down relief from Acton headed by a 28xx. It takes a left turn into the down relief loop and draws forward to the signal. As they left Acton at 3.20 and have little shunting to do before leaving at 05.40 the crew take breakfast (frying sounds)
O510:- a 57xx LE from Slough passes through on the down relief heading for Twyford. It had slowed in case the 0506:- had not cleared into the loop but on seeing clear signals speeds up to loud exhaust.
0515:- the late running (due 0500) up milk from Whitland behind a Castle thunders through the relief line whistling loudly.
0520:- the slightly late (due 0510) 0430 news and milk empties from Paddington to Westbury draws in on the down relief behind a Hall. It is allowed 5 mins to drop a GUV from the front of the train into the up siding. The driver must take care not to buffer up to the brake of the goods standing in the up loop!
0527:- a late running (due 0515) coal train hauled by a LMR 8F crawls into the up relief loop to drop a raft of wagons into the coal sidings It will leave on time at 0606 but at 0557 pulls out of the loop to wait at the up relief platform signal.
0530:- a Slough 61xx arrives on the down relief LE to collect a set of Suburban coaches from the branch siding to form the 0600 to Paddington. This engine is facing Reading (Slough engines usually faced London) because its next duty from Paddington is a fast timed passenger to Oxford!
0540 :- the down mineral pulls out of the down relief loop and clanks on its way.
0600:- the 540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels arrives in the up relief loop hauled by a 56xx. It drops some vans into the neck of the coal sidings then moves across to the up siding to collect the GUV left there by the 0430 Paddington to Westbury. It has to run round the GUV using the crossovers between the up and down relief lines. It then pulls forward into the branch platform recently left by the 06.00 to Paddington and runs round its train via the up relief.
0610:- another Slough 61xx arrives on the down relief LE, this one facing London. It passes onto the branch heading to power the 0730 Bourne end to Paddington.
0620:- the Princes Risborough Parcels storms away up the branch.
06.25:- the first up 3 car DMU of the day arrives from Reading on the up relief heading for Paddington.
06.30:- Class 5 from Westbury powered by a Hall arrives in the up relief loop to wait the passing of the 0650 Aberdare
0634:- the 0620 Slough to High Wycombe local 61xx hauled arrives in the branch platform and leaves up the branch at 0638.
0640:- starting noises are heard from the 3 car DMU in the down siding. No doubt the crew arrived from Slough on the High Wycombe train.
0645:- the DMU starts its manoeuvre to gain the branch platform ready for its 0658 departure to Paddington.
0650:- Class 8 from Aberdare to OOC powered by a 9F passes through the relief line
0655:- the 57xx shunter that earlier passed west towards Twyford returns through the up relief line heading for Taplow.
0658:- DMU leaves the branch platform for Paddington.

So in summary:-
In one hour I have handled 14 trains, 7 of which have looped or carried out multiple movements.
Time for a coffee I Think!

Before you all reach for your WTTs and pick me up on discrepancies, there are one or two compromises and one or two Rule 1s in the above.
No prizes for spotting them!!

Cheers
Paul

 

Hi All,
Had mixed luck this morning:-

Liberated an example of the latest WR Toad from AGRs shelves. Justified the purchase on the grounds that it is in weathered grey! Yes, I know I could weather one of the half dozen or so I already have, but my excuse is that I need to have one pre weathered to measure my efforts against. (Don't hold your breath waiting to see my efforts, there is along queue outside the wagon works and the works is on a one day week (if you are lucky!!).

Not so good were my efforts to book an advanced ticket for Ally Pally.

I'd forgotten in the last year that I had registered with the site, so wasted time trying to register after choosing ticket. Then when site told me I was registered wasted more time as couldn't remember password. Then got to paying only to find basket had timed out! Hadn't realized basket had a time running down!

So gave up, try again tomorrow!!

Still a few amusing comments on posts on this site has restored my good humour.

Keep smiling!
Cheers
Paul