Recreating Leek station signal box

Discussion in 'Line Side Buildings' started by Andy_Sollis, May 1, 2020.

  1. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Do you have any other "difficult" projects for Mr S to CAD from non existent plans and some faded photos ?

    When you mention environs Fruit are you hoping to include that nice stone warehouse with eighteen arch windows, one beer stage extension and a two storey office :facepalm::avatar:
     
    Cidge, Andy_Sollis and jakesdad13 like this.
  2. Fruit

    Fruit Full Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    I do yes, once Leek box is completed with the adjoining building and capstan shed I would like him to do Stoke North Yard box. Must have been nicked named the goldfish bowl with windows all round.
     
  3. Fruit

    Fruit Full Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Best not copy and paste a transcript unless some of the more colourful Anglo Saxon terminologies are edited out along with references to the nickname of a certain former relief signalman.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Andy_Sollis, jakesdad13 and Fruit like this.
  6. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Ok, so yesterday evening a small group (IE, Yorkie, Fruit and myself) had a discussion over how the signal box was developing..

    somethings were not quite sitting right (and as Paul had said, some of it was from memory 50’years ago.) a comment on a picture from Facebook who’s father had worked the box suggested we had the stove in the wrong position... so, we set to work doing some research.

    we can’t locate any internal pictures sadly, so looked at similar sized boxes as most were laid out the same.

    91E2B0A6-B6D2-46CC-86EB-3D033AD77D84.jpeg
    the first was a photo of a mirror image box, Ford Green when it was first moved to the Foxfield railway (sadly it no longer survives)

    Sadly, it doesn’t really suggest where the stove pipe etc was located along the back wall, but...

    we also noticed that the box had a double window at the far back corner... so raised the Q.. did Leek?

    another similar sized box was Foley Road Crossing near Longton.
    4BB070D6-A8BD-4C03-B31A-64503F78B972.jpeg
    This also has a double window at the rear, so we made the group decision to see how it all fitted on the 3D model.

    So with a moved stove and altered rear windows here was how we came to where we were at..

    4549A991-F25B-4927-A69C-D1EB7E10AA07.jpeg

    We still were unsure re the stove and having looked at more photos from different angles, we came to the conclusion that the stove etc was located to the centre of the back wall between the two roof spreader beams.

    290D032A-DDFA-405E-B731-9FC09DA0F30D.jpeg

    and here was how we left it after we shut up shop last night. As we have no plans or photos only grey cells etc to work from, we feel we may have done the original box some justice. The frame (and brass kettle!!) was added purely to give some spacing feel - I don’t intent to fully kit it out. (But you never know, I may add a locking shelf as I have some of the items drawn up... @York Paul !!:giggle::giggle:)​

    well, that’s all for now, now to recreate the files required to upload to the printers so the model can be produced.
     
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I feel confident in saying now the lever frame is positioned correctly on the operating floor, I once scrambled behind the frame from the door end and walked along the back of the frame where there was a wire adjuster turnbuckle behind 40 lever at the right hand end which made for getting out rather difficult. Number 40 was the Down Leek distant signal and was located 840 yards in rear of the box towards the Birchall Tunnel, the signal post (I made a model of it the other week) was situated on the embankment just north of the farm occupation crossing and next to a brick plate layers cabin where there was a fogging machine for det placing, for some strange reason this cabin was built halfway down the embankment slope and there were steps leading up to the cess edge. The number 1 distant in the Up direction located at Nab Hill beyond the Kiln Lane overbridge and north of Leek Tunnel didn't need a wire adjuster as the signal wire ran through the tunnel for a greater distance and was thus not subject to fluctuations of temperature and expansion. I really will need to start taking the meds more often... oh dear the white van has just pulled up outside. :avatar:
     
    Cidge, jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  8. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    But you know what?
    It’s fascinating!
     
    York Paul likes this.
  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Cheers Mr S but you know what... I make it up as I go along :avatar: No seriously my regret was that I never took more pictures and had better photography skills to capture these little places which were just considered mundane and uninteresting. Another interesting fact concerns the ground frame at Leek, this was situated on the Up platform underneath the A52 Newcastle Road bridge, it was a simple two lever affair to an LNWR Sketch 488 design and the interlocking consisted of nothing more than a riveted bar on the release lever which held the crossover points lever in normal position, the levers faced towards the tunnel in the Rudyard direction and the frame was close up against the brickwork of the bridge wall. There was a short sleeper covered gully across the platform surface to the stone copers so access to the rod run for maintenance could be made, when the station was demolished around 1973 the pedestal cranks and some rodding was still in situ. There was also a very large electric bell under the canopy on the station platform, it was affixed to the wall which abounded the staff room and the ladies waiting room, presumably there was a telephone in the staff room to communicate with the signal box. Incidentally the two track circuits wired through the crossover were TC 2585 on the Up in rear of 39 co-acting Home signal and TC 2586 on the Down which was wired all the way through the platform line up to number 3 the Rudyard Starting signal which according to my records was located 326 yards in advance of Leek box. That gives us some idea of just how big this station complex actually was, a ten coach train could happily be parked in the platforms. Now I have to go as the ambulance is here and a Policeman is banging on the door demanding entry waving a section 2 order. :avatar::avatar::avatar:
     
    Cidge and Andy_Sollis like this.
  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    It’s a section 135 for entry re mental health and then detained under section 136! :giggle::giggle::giggle:
     
  11. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Continuing on... 89CC398E-DD6F-4F40-B5B8-0D9FC0A3447D.jpeg here is the back side of the box now the rear window has been changed.
    581381EE-CFDD-4F32-99D5-429654F81771.jpeg
    And from the front..

    I then went in to fine tune the windows as they were showing under thickness on Shapeways model tester. So, beefed up my .5mm !! Yes really! I could then also add in the chamfer on the front for decoration. Sadly doesn’t really stand out in OO but much more clear in O.
    0A6DD403-CBF1-4609-A667-418108D41BD8.jpeg

    The model does t come with glazing, I’ve simply added this in for appearance... along with the internal details.

    speaking of which, I’ve progressed a bit more on that this morning thanks to @York Paul supplying the lever colours for the 40 lever box.
    355EA3DE-2CA2-4ABD-BBFB-F2C4B0EA13DA.jpeg
    pre sorting of the levers.
    B0A10D4D-546D-4239-9324-959C2729791D.jpeg
    from the side, you can see the McKenzie and Holland back board with its cast plate behind the levers.
    3018E5AC-F8BE-44E8-9B78-ADFE08C8D4E7.jpeg
    from the doorway.
    851B5FEA-26BB-485C-A963-94CE5B4DF2D3.jpeg
    and the decorated frame. (All the right order, not necessarily in the right notes!)

    off to work now..
     
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    nice work Andy, the Up and Down line blocks would be positioned over their respective sequential locking levers e.g Home, Starter Distant (that's the pull order not the position in the frame). I'll work out which AR and LR signal relay indicators and the two TC relays for you this evening.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  13. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    May need to look at removing them from the block shelf and putting them back on their mounting boards, but not sure how they secure?
     
    York Paul likes this.
  14. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    The block shelf arrangement at Leek was the same as at Form Green, there were two cast iron pedestals which bolted to the floor behind the lever frame, there was a set of four quarter brackets set up as a square on each pedestal which carried two long horizontal wooden timbers at the front and timber trunking for wire looms behind. The block instruments were screwed to the timbers as was the polar relay indicators, e.g track circuit, arm repeater and bolt in / out indicators (if Leek had a bolt indicator which i don't think it did and it certainly didn't have those brass plungers to pick electric locks) all the wiring was loomed together behind and carried in the trucking. There would have been the omnibus circuit and signal telephones fixed onto this as well. Leek had two track circuits TC 2585 and 2586 which 37 Up Home and 2 Down Home which prevented them from being cleared if the track voltage shunted with the station crossover in reverse.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  15. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Thanks Paul, even after all these years of conversing, there are still some bits that don’t always make sense when you tell me, purely as I’ve never seen it so can’t picture it.

    however, between us, I think we can do a great job on this. But that will be for another day.

    if you can suggest how it should be laid out (noting I probably have some modern BR items on there for signal off repeaters) I’d be grateful.
     
    York Paul likes this.
  16. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Yes never a problem Andy... maybe my railway "speak " is often confusing however, lets get heads together and make the start point for work looking in depth at Fruit's Ford Green interior pictures to determine how the McKenzie & Holland block shelf and pedestals looked. I know the North Eastern used McKenzie Type 17 frames on four and a half inch centres and those installations employed a very similar block shelf design... possibly worth a peek in at the Signalling forum to see what we can glean. Now check out the Elton Box and if its still there look behind the telephone board as a similar set up was used there only with out the cast pedestals, Elton had three omnibus phones mounted on two longitudinal timbers but the brackets were fancy cast ones.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  17. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,848
    Likes Received:
    5,902
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Wow Andy

    I think the slow down is due to the program, as I get the same with the wagons, and my PC is not short of resources (8 Core 16 Thread $.2Ghz Cpu, 32GB Ram GTX2060 Graphics card - so horse power is not the issue) - I may have to start looking again at Fusion, Blender or Solidworks.

    Very impressive tho Andy

    Paul
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  18. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Hi Paul... no, I found the issue!!! When I drew the lever frame up I used “bolts” from the site freebee menu, with full threads scaled down to 7mm. I only needed the heads (which had I thought and have since, could just have been made from a 6 sided shape.
    Modified it yesterday and it flew through all 40 levers.. (there were 8 of those bolts.... on each lever!) so reduced some of the capacity there.

    it also doesn’t like a lot of bricks, until you “group” them together as one. You just have to ensure that it’s not going t need modifying (as I did half way through, but got away with it!!)

    and thanks for the kind support.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    3,621
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Do you mean these??

    1BA574DA-52B9-491F-AA90-B3F7B33945C7.jpeg
    As seen in Elton box at Cheddleton when YOU were restoring it?
     
    jakesdad13 and York Paul like this.
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,816
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Yes I do... what we see here is a similar structure to Leek but not the same ... we must compare differences with the Ford Green one. But yes Andy it looks like we are cooking on gas now.:thumbup:
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.

Share This Page