Tomlins Creek ..... A NSWGR Inglenook

Discussion in 'Planks, Switching and Shelf Layouts' started by Gary, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Recently I had been humming and harring on which way to go with this layout in regards to DC or DCC. Last night I had a phone conversation with Chris (SMR Chris) on layout operations and the best way of providing track power. At the end of the phone call, a decision was met.

    This being an exhibition layout and a tool to help promote P1MRC, criteria had to be decided upon. Three things came to mind...

    1. I want this to be an 'entry level' layout, one a mere mortal can cobble together and run trains in an operational sense (shunting).

    2. To keep the costs down, because as we all know, model railways is not a cheap hobby and the locomotives are at the far end of the 'wallet scale'. Same with controllers.

    3. As Chris and I discussed, it can be quite difficult (especially at exhibitions) to stop a locomotive/wagon directly above the neo magnets I use for uncoupling.

    So with all this in mind, I have elected to run this layout on DC...

    Why I here you ask... Simple answer, why not ! Most people getting into model railways for the first time don't really shell out a lot of money to get started. Most people use what they have and then build on. When the funds and time allow, that's when most will have a change in direction, not just on expanding the layout, but the control systems they use.

    If you think about it, when we first got into model railway, we started with a train set and expanded from there. More coaches and/or wagons, a second loco (followed by another), then the track expanded followed by the dual track controller. Eventually finishing up on a decision on whether to stick with DC or switch to DCC...

    Personally I could get some satisfaction running on DCC, but if I was to do that, I would seriously consider putting sound into all my NSWGR locomotives, not just a standard dcc decoder. Eventually I can do this in the future if I'm up to the expense. Then again, this layout could be something completely different in a couple of years, it could change from a rural setting to become an industrial railway...

    Oh..., and one other thing, the name I have chosen for the layout is...

    :drums:

    :drums:

    :drums:

    ....'Tomlins Creek'. ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  2. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Well thought out Gary :tophat:
    I think you have the right idea, as an intro to the hobby, to say look what you can do with a bit of foam some wood and basic track, economically make a start with something that look really good and has more interest than just a circle of track on the table top.
    Makes a big saving too on the decoders as you say your tempted by sound to put in sound in all the locos is a few $$$ well you could add another loco to the fleet for the cost of adding sound to one or two :scratchchin:mmmmmm More trains :facepalm: More trains :hammer:
     
  3. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Getting into model railways cheaply is the way most folks, especially either young children (tomorrows modellers) or parents with young children and a mortgage would want to get into this hobby. As you say, the "Bells & Whistles" can be added later when it's seen that there is real interest rather than a 'passing fad', as sometimes happens when interest wanes as the 'novelty' wears off. At that point, if the bug has truly bitten, with some experience, the novice (and we were ALL one once!) can make a decision on the best way forward. Would it be a sensible idea to see how cheaply an interesting layout could be built for exhibition, then list the items used and their prices as a sort of "Look what can be built for only X dollars" type of approach? That way, if parents could see what they could get for a child (or Dad!) for relatively little money, it might well attract more 'new starters' who previously though that the stunning layouts also displayed at exhibitions were way out of range of their pockets. Standing in the queue for the 'Shuttle bus" to York racecourse last Saturday, a middle-aged guy came up and asked if this was the queue for the Model Railway Exhibition bus. On confirmation, He replied "Ah, I though it was, all 'Blokes of a certain age'! and this I suppose, sums us up, but there won't be another generation of 'Blokes of a certain age' in the future if todays youngsters don't take up the hobby, so any way to generate their interest has to be good.....your idea is a great one, Gary.:thumbs:

    Keith.
     
  4. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks for the feed back Chris and Keith. It just reinforces my decision. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Well Gary I'd certainly go along with the notion of keeping costs down.:thumbup: Sounds like a plan.:avatar: I look forward to following the build.:thumbs:
     
  6. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I like your thinking Gary, as you quite rightly say, exhibition visitors only see the top end of modelling, those of us that came up through the ranks starting out with a train set on the lounge carpet then adding more track and points, locos, wagons and coaches rarely share that journey. If I could make a suggestion, make a photo display, I use a loose leaf folder with clear pockets for my engine resto' photos and hang it in front of the engine at rallys, and put photos of the build so beginners can see how you've done it.

    Pete.
     
  7. Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

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    At a workshop a while ago there was a demonstration layout running DCC, my wife was offered a go at driving a train from one end to the other. Now, she has no difficulty using the DC controller here on Luke's layout, but when faced with this DCC controller, an NCE one, she was totally bewildered, speed control was through a non obvious thumbwheel rather than a knob, as for the rest of it, well there are more buttons than the radio on a 1990s Honda Accord. She was completely stumped, and most of those buttons didn't do anything anyway.
    Cheers
    Tony
     
  8. Sandbar

    Sandbar Full Member

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    If I started again, I would invest in battery remote control, which saves cleaning track and I could use as many balloon tracks, "y's", turntables, etc without wiring cost and headaches.
    I found that not many people visit to have a drive around the layout so basically it is mainly myself keeping occupied.

    Expecting visitors is the reason I went to NCE dcc, starting with a basic NCE Twin then later to the Powercab which enabled me to program sound decoders.

    I look at the cost of adding sound and at times it is more expensive than the original loco. A bit of flutter with power pick up and the sound plays up so back to cleaning track.

    My shed is enclosed but on windy days when I open up in the morning I sometimes find leaves that somehow blew in and onto the track, which gives an idea of how much dust can be around.

    Just a few thoughts from the Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway
     
  9. Chatty

    Chatty Full Member

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    Tony, I cannot let this go through to the keeper.

    There are simple DCC controllers about that just have a single knob and reverse switch with a centre off and very simple loco selection. Like the Digitrax UT4. It has some additional buttons; each one does have a function. When I had an operational layout it was the controller I would hand to my visitors because it was so familiar to the standard DC walk around controller.

    Kind regards

    Geoff
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Ah, but they do ! All the buttons have a certain function. There are a lot there, but when running a layout you can switch points, turn on/off lights/sounds (ambient), operate other devices or models on the layout. Then there is the sound decoders in your locomotives (steam, diesel, electric, gas turbine) and rolling stock.

    This pic will explain the functions for a Digitrainsund Loksound decoder for a Class 22...

    NCE Power Cab Throttle.JPG

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  11. cmcan

    cmcan Full Member

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    Gary,

    I thought you said you wanted to keep things simple!!!

    Cameron
     
  12. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Don't worry Cameron, Tomlins Creek will be DC. :D The reply above was to show Tony what some of the buttons do ! ;) Besides, you know how to handle a Powercab...

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  13. cmcan

    cmcan Full Member

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    That is true. Was that the sound card in the yellow diesel from last year?
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    No, the description above is for this loco, a Class 22...

    DSCN7491 (2) Class 22 reduced.jpg

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  15. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    A few little things have popped up on the layout that I like and one thing that I don't...

    I'll start with the one I don't like...

    This is the back scene lifting. This pic below is of one that I took after attempting to re-adhere to the back board.


    I will be replacing the back scene with a full length back scene (same image) tomorrow after I pick it up from the printers. I had a call this morning asking if I wanted the 5mm border removed from my image, to which I did not.., so that means they have to print another one for me. If that wasn't an issue, I could have picked it up today. Anyway, what I need to do is remove the back scene back board, which means carefully removing the low relief wall of the fertilizer shed... :faint:Hopefully this will be an easier task than I anticipate, otherwise I'll need to build another wall... :whatever:

    The good things that popped up are the arrival of three new wagons !

    Victorian Railways open wagon.


    New South Wales MLE flat wagon with pipe load.


    ...and a GLX louvre van with 'Unzip a Banana' logo


    These wagons will be a great addition to the shunting, something different to what I have already.

    More to come...

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  16. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Gary

    May I suggest a display board with the costs listed - bit like a Bill of Materials, to go beside the layout, to also emphasise cost of moving in to a "real model railway" from a train set.

    The warts an all approach went down really well with the public at Elgin - that and some mad Aussie that flew over just for the exhibition and curry eating competition :avatar:

    With Viccy Road, I have an NCE Cab 06 engineers throttle - a cut down throttle, basically a Pot + direction buttons that guest operators get to use, and can be put into Yard mode, with a center off so works like an old Hammant & Morgan controller.

    However, I would say the biggest advantage DC will have over DCC for a newbie / transition layout like this, providing the loco's are wired correctly, the locos will travel in the direction the direction switch is pointing, rather than the locos forward and reverse.

    Paul
     
  17. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm looking forward to this build Gary ... ref; getting the youngsters to continue the hobby it's my own opinion that we may be targeting the wrong generation ... I like many of us here on the forum only started in the hobby when getting into our latter years (polite ain't I) and I reckon that's the age to target ... the next latter years generation (50's to 60's). Model railways is about nostalgia which the optimism of youth don't have yet.
    The older group though have a hidden desire for a 'trainset' and we just need to persuade them (and their partners) that it's a hobby not a toy and achievable whist (initially) not overly expensive.
    I think Gary you've got it just right!

    Ian vt
     
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  18. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Gary your not the only one with a backscene issue

    Fingers crossed that the new one is all good
    Nice couple of new wagons as well.

    My back scene issue
    I purchased a 10ft long Rockie Mountains USA themed back scene 4 years ago for the HOn3 Narrow Gauge never got around to fitting until this week.

    Only to discover on Thursday when I went to fit it I had a 6ft one in a tube that had it listed as 10ft :faint: Ooooooo that’s no good when the length required is minimum 8 ft but the 10ft was intended to covered the ends as well :facepalm:
    With A stroke of luck I was able to get on line and order a new one lucky it’s only $28 as its Would have been a bit of an issue to return the original one now after 4Years:whatever: I think beside that no local shops had one of this type anymore.
    New one order so should be all good as long as it’s 10ft when it arrives.
    Now if the point motors would turn up DHL seems to have lost them.:(
     
  19. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks for the replies and advice Paul and Ian.

    Paul, that is a good idea to display the cost of building the layout, a great idea.

    Ian, I hear what you are saying about the demographic that is attracted to model railway. There is always a good percentage of youngsters at our exhibitions that look, listen and take note of what has been accomplished on the layouts being exhibited. I find if people are looking, but may not necessarily ask a question, I'll start a conversation with them, regardless of age.

    I think the difference between how Chris and I exhibit is that we are out front operating which doesn't have that barrier between us and the punters, which makes us very much more approachable.

    Well, I got the back scene back board off today and the fertilizer shed wall came off with reasonable ease. There was a few glue blobs that needed a knife to completely remove from the back of the foam core. All up, I'm pretty happy with the way it came off.


    The layout is wired for DCC, but today I added extra wires and an isolating switch to the small siding near the bridge, to hold a locomotive. The wiring for DCC is still intact so that means in the future I can chip my locos. The wiring that was added has a male.female plug attached which hooks up to the old dc transformer/controller. I tested everything today and it works well, or as I expected.


    The plug comes through the baseboard frame to meet with the controller. The isolating switch is by means of a momentary push button.


    Whilst the afternoon sun was slowly goin down, it cast a nice light over the layout and I managed a pic or two, because I could with the back scene removed.



    Isn't it funny that the camera picks up those things not necessarily picked up by the eye ?? Note the fine web on the hand rails on the front of the 48 ??

    That's it for now.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  20. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Just read your reply Chris. That's a bummer about the under-size back scene. Glad you could organise another one.

    In regards to the back scene (x 2) I'm having printed, it is on 160gsm paper and when I pick it up tomorrow, it will receive a coat of clear matt sealer and be applied using wall paper paste instead.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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