Moving to DCC - So Many Questions

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by ET.trainman, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    Hi all,

    Relatively new (just signed up) lol, but I have so many questions regarding our (my son and I were building a layout for DC) and I've decided to take it all back and redesign it again to get it ready for DCC and so far from what I've been reading this what our plan will be:
    • The layout size will be 1500mm x 800mm
    • Using Kato N Scale tracks
    • NCE PowerCab
    I've worked out, that I will need to put in bus wires that come off from plug adapter that comes with the NCE PowerCab. What I am not sure of is how many feeder wires or droppers will I need around a track for this layout (I've been told I don't need as much feeders given how well Kato tracks connect)

    Another question I had, should I use the Kato terminal unijoiners and snip off the molex plug end and solder those onto the bus wires?

    I also have a few #6 Kato turnouts that I read can be programmed with NCE Switch Kats - do I still need to modify the turnouts so they are not power routing or can they be plugged into the decoders as is?

    So many questions I am sure to have but sorry for all the newbie questions - DC was such a simpler time lol
     
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hi,

    Can you post up a track plan. It will make it a bit easier for people to work things out. I'm not sure how Kato turnouts work but hopefully someone can jump in with an explanation. Even better ....... A Kato diagram. I will try and check on the internet but this may take a bit of time.

    I use NCE :thumbup: and switch 8's to operate my turnouts. It works very well. I also use Cobalt turnout motors. :thumbup: .

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  3. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    Ah that is the thing, I have taken it apart and currently have the tracks in a pile and haven't layed out a layout yet, I've just began by repurposing some foam board at the moment. Will be sure to post something up once I've worked out a track layout :)
     
  4. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi

    I have not used Kato track, so cannot comment directly on these.

    Personally, I am of the at least 1 feed wire per piece of rail school, relying on track joiners to transmit current can be a bit hit and miss.

    Good choice on DCC system, very user friendly with lots of functionality (I use the same system).

    For your points, this site may help Wiring for DCC - Switches Kato

    Have a read and see if it helps, it may help point us all in the right direction

    Paul
     
  5. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    That's great. Once you have worked out a track plan, let us know. We should be able to help guide you with the droppers. Do you have track planning software ? I use Anyrail which you can download a trial version for free. It may help you with your track plan design. :thumbs:

    Toto
     
  6. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    I've begun recently using AnyRail, need to do a count of what the curves I have and their radius, challenging to look up in the software when I don't have the packaging anymore for the tracks lol. Also the wiring for DCC kato link I've read over and over, but some reason it's not jumping out at me as English.... the last time I soldered something was in High School, haha.
     
  7. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    hi ET trainman as your heading to the dark side with dcc I only have limited knowledge .. first you'll need hemlock and eye of toad .. then a sprinkling of magic mushroom .. hope this helps .. good luck :facepalm:
     
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  8. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    I will give my 2 cents worth having delved into DCC and built two layouts in quick succession. The second layout came about through the lessons I learnt.

    Bus wires - have a look at Gormos Shed videos and find the spring method for mounting a bus wire underneath the base board. I have used it and it’s a great method.

    I partly agree with the 1 dropper per piece of track IF you don’t solder the track joiners. I have taken to putting a small dab of solder at the track join to ensure connectivity. To do this you will need to use solder flux aka bakers fluid which will allow the solder to run beautifully. I have gone this route because soldering droppers is a pain in the butt. Obviously you want to be happy with the layout at that point but you can seperate the track with a bit of heat from the soldering iron if need be. The joiner will be a write off though. I have done this on my layout and have a single dropper for each continuous run of track. Where it has an isolating joiner for my powered frogs, the section ends and another dropper goes in.

    I’m not familiar with Kato track, so if it has some sort of special connectors this might not be the best way.

    I hope this helps.

    Reidy
     
  9. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Forgot to add that bakers fluid is corrosive so you will want to give the join a bit of scrub with some isopro alcohol after it cools to stop the track going green!

    Reidy
     
  10. Chatty

    Chatty Full Member

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    It is a long time (read very long time) since I played, er sorry, evaluated with Kato track.

    I did create a small test layout and a couple of modules for the system called T Track. They were DCC operated and I was quite happy the way it worked.

    The Kato track joiners are mechanical in nature and fairly robust. In fact they can be a bit of bugger to get off to put isolating joiners on. Unfortunately, Kato track comes in small lengths so it is largely impractical to have droppers on every piece of track. But like anything DCC the more droppers the merrier so use the joiners with the leads attached every few pieces. As I have said the joiners are fairly robust (in fact, in T Track they used to hold the modules together) I cannot recall having any problems with current flow.

    From experience I would not solder wires directly to the rails as the plastic base is (very) susceptible to heat and you have to drill a hole through the base to get the wire through and is very difficult to disguise it and the wire.

    The other thing I can recall if using a Digitrax system then a special stationary decoder was required as the point motor is DC as opposed to the normal AC. You may need to check that your decoder you use will be compatible.

    I used Kato unijoiners ended up snipping off the Moylex connector as I couldn't find anything that was compatible with it on the market. I did buy some off EBay from a dealer that said they were compatible but it was EBay after all.

    Kato is a very good track system, easy to put together and reliable. Basically, was designed for Japanese use where it is laid out for a few hours fun and then taken up because that was also your sleeping space. Also, I think the Japanese like to change track arrangements regularly as well.

    Personally, I think if you have it layout that is "permanently" attach to a board you might better off using Peco settrack.

    This link will provide you with more information about wiring Kato points http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm

    Kind regards

    Geoff
     
  11. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    Wow, what an abundance of information. I am thinking going down the unijoiners just for their design with the Kato uniconnectors on them already. Which in the end will save me time from soldering the feeders to the tracks and plus with the prefab ballasting plastic I am not confident to spend all that time to solder that end of it. I did consider perhaps moving to another track system but I have huge stack of Kato from a simple DC system I used for my son so I am repurposing that plus once glued and extra ballast you can't tell it's Kato but with the reliability of Kato (win-win in my books)

    The only other thing I am unsure is if polarity does matter when soldering the droppers to the bus wire and would I need to add something at the end of the bus wires as a termination point?
     
  12. Reidy

    Reidy Full Member

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    Yep, you need a positive and a negative bus wire. No need for insulating terminators. I just used a small picture framing hook at each end screwed into the timber frame with a spring on one end to tension the line as per Gormo’s design.

    Nominate the polarity of each bus wire and then each track feeder goes to its applicable bus. I ran the bus wires parallel underneath the baseboard on my shunting layout and used this same principle with the tracks. Positive is the far rail as I look at it and negative is the close rail. Obviously the droppers are colour coded and wired to the correct bus underneath. No confusion!

    Reidy
     
  13. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi

    For bus wire I and Toto (so we don't get mixed up), use Red wire for the front rail, and Black for the rear rail on each track.

    The link Chatty and myself posted, will give wiring tips for the kato points, the worrying bit was that the N#6 point was not DCC friendly but there is a workaround, the N#4 is DCC compatible.

    Paul
     
  14. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    When you say the N#4 being DCC friendly does that mean it doesn't require any modding?
     
  15. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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  16. Chatty

    Chatty Full Member

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    My initial thoughts would suggest not. I think the way it is designed to fit into the Kato track base would work against it. Peco track joiners may work.

    If it modifying the Kato turnouts is giving you a bit of scare I am trying to dig into the deepest recesses of my mind whether I did any modification or not. I think the essential thing was to put insulated joiners at the "exit" points of the turnout.

    I have shot of an email to a friend who has had a fair bit to do with Kato track to see if he can give me any further information.

    Kind regards

    Geoff
     
  17. ET.trainman

    ET.trainman Full Member

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    Thanks for the help Geoff. I've been given more info as well regarding the number #6 turnouts - so there is a gap between the frogs and where the 'X' meets, so it should be OK in DCC operation as long as I place a feeder 'before' the turnout. So will give this a go first. Here's just a photo of the layout I am finally settling with.
     

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  18. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Looks good. Loads of opportunities there. That'll keep you busy for a while.:thumbs:
     

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