4mm Scale Metal Rail Chairs For Code 100 ?

Discussion in 'Hand built track' started by Purple Bob, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Purple Bob

    Purple Bob Full Member

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    I wonder if anybody can help me with a source for 4mm Scale Metal Rail Chairs For Code 100 Flat Bottom Rail please ?? I've searched high and low for these. Does anybody manufacture them?

    I'm thinking about custom building some pointwork using Peco Streamline rail and soldered construction on copper clad sleepers. But I just don't seem to be able to find suitable chairs anywhere for British track. Short of casting them in brass myself, which would be tedious for 2000 chairs, I'm a bit lost.

    Any advice appreciated......

    Best Regards,
    Purple Bob.
     
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  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi there Purple Bob, yes this enquiry seems to lead us up a dead end as it were since I fear you may well be looking for something that doesn't exist in model form. I don't "do" 4mm scale anymore so I'm probably not the best to answer here but all I managed to find for you was a product by C&L which sadly is ABS plastic and fits Code 82 rail... whether this can be modified to suit Code 100 I cannot say.

    Here is the link if its any use:- https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/onlin...-CODE-82-FLAT-BOTTOM-RAIL-PACK-500-p128200320

    Personally speaking as a scratch builder I'd probably want to manufacture my own as tedious as this may be because from looking at the C & L picture it baffles me as to what these baseplates and fixings are actually meant to represent; appreciated that at 4mm scale details such as that may well be not aesthetically so important to many folk. The C & L offering in 4mm scale does vaguely appear to be shaped around the BR 1 cast baseplate which uses elastic clips to hold the rail in place but that's only my opinion.

    Not being picky at all but if you do end up casting your own baseplates then might it not be better to use Code 75 rail since Code 100 is the best part of a third overscale in height ?

    Sorry this is the best I can do.
    cheers York Paul
     
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  3. Purple Bob

    Purple Bob Full Member

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    Thanks Paul.... No I don't usually do 4mm either... :confused: I took a look at those C&L ones... Hmmm You're right, they look like nothing I recognise either. I just had a mooch round their web site and found that they do cast brass ones too... at nearly £1 EACH!!!!!!!! https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/2-BOLT-CHAIR-BRASS-PACK-8-p127998907 I can't see me giving them £2000 for some rail chairs. 1P each maybe.

    Thanks for trying. I'm pretty sure that they used to be a very common product back in the 1960's and 1970's Perhaps not enough people build their own track any more.

    I've got a big bag of scrap forks and spoons, great source for nickel silver covered brass... Looks like I'm going to throwing a good selection into the melting pot. Making some waxes and casting some up. :whatever:

    Best Regards,
    Purple Bob.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Well you know what Purple Bob casting your own could prove to be a smart move particularly if you can get sixteen or twenty or so baseplates on a tree sprue if going down the lost wax route. Then again it depends on which sort of baseplate you are after representing, the BJB flat plate types (now non standard) use elastic rail spikes to hold the rail onto the plate and also into wooden sleepers to maintain the gauge whereas Pandrols (pig tail clips) don't always use cast baseplates unless they are fitted to timber sleepers in which case the BR 1 baseplate with acceptance lugs is used. On modern pre-stressed concrete F27 sleepers (used on continuous welded rail) the Pandrol lug fasteners are cast into the concrete and act to hold the gauge as well as the fixing pig tail clip. The baseplate for this type of flat bottom rail fastener is a Neoprene rubber pad with orange hi tensile plastic shims.
     
  5. Purple Bob

    Purple Bob Full Member

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    I'd pobably try and get more than that on there Paul. They really are so small at 4mm scale It'd be easy to do a tree with a couple of hundred of them at a time. Thanks for the technical data... I've got a few full size Midland BRM chairs for wood sleepers including some crossing chairs. I'll more than likely copy those and 3D print up some paterns to make the waxes from.

    Best Regards,
    Purple Bob.
     
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  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    You could always use rivets through timber sleepers, solder the rails to the rivets then cut plastic chairs in half and glue either side of the rail.

    Paul
     
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  7. Purple Bob

    Purple Bob Full Member

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    Yes I guess so... I'll give it some further thought before firing up the furnace. Lots of ways to skin a cat I suppose. I could also do that with copper clad, soldering the rail to the sleepers, and then gluing plastic chairs cut in half either side. It's a commercial job and the project designer has been a bit loose on the specifications. So I'll have to get a confirmation on how much they actually want to spend. I'm not on any time constraint on it... well not any unreasonable one, like the ones we usually get with Film and TV jobs. I'm all for exploring things that are easier.

    Best Regards,
    Purple Bob.
     
  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    The advantage of the timber sleeper / rivet vs copper clad, it the rail is raised above the sleeper rather than secured directly on so the chair will look like it is holding the rail.
    You could also 3D resin print the chairs - a rough guess you print on a Anycubic Photon approx 100 chairs per hour (100 chairs printed directly on to the build plate).

    Paul
     
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  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah but these are baseplates for flat bottom rail section. :avatar:
     
  10. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Dear Purple Bob,

    Flatbottom rail does not use chairs at all, fixing is by spike, screw, or clips with baseplates. If you intend to handbuild flatbottom rail on copperclad sleepers,
    only solder is required. At 4mm scale spikes or screws are very small, so you do not need to worry about it.

    Yes, I am aware that you can buy spikes from the US for HO / 3.5mm flatbottom track , but these spikes are in reality to O / 7mm scale, as HO scale would be too small to use.

    Bullhead track does require chairs, and there are a number of suppliers for that.

    There is a British supplier of etched brass plates for flatbottom, and etched brass fold up chairs for bullhead, being Masokits Masterkits by Michael Clark, available to anyone via the Scalefour Society's Traders List for details,

    Regards, Echidna
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  11. Purple Bob

    Purple Bob Full Member

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    Hi Echidna,
    Ermmm... Yes... I get that. Has anybody bothered to tell Peco or Hornby... and more to the point, did they take any notice.... LOL :hammer:

    Thanks for the suggestion about Masokits Masterkits by Michael Clark, I'll take a look at those. If they're just etches then I would probably do those myself. Depends on time and budgets really. I'll see how they look.

    Best Regards,
    Purple Bob.

    P.S. Just had a look at the Masokits... They seem to be for code 75. That said: 300 running rail "chairs" for "flat bottom" rail for about £8 is a much better price. Even though as you correctly pointed out that's a contradiction in terms. (also nods to York Paul on that "point", or should that be on that "Turnout" LOL :thumbs: )
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Turnouts it is indeed Purple Bob as you rightly point out or to be exact Switches and Crossings... no frogs either live or dead ones or even little green jumpy things which live at the bottom of my garden. :avatar:

    Keep us posted as to how you move this project forward Purple Bob...also if you could give us a shout out when you have the factory low relief set ready... no hurry I need something which will cover about four feet in length.:thumbs:
     

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