The tale of a Lux-Modellbau E9301 Wheel Cleaning Tool

Discussion in 'Tools' started by Jim Freight, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    :hismiley:

    I succumbed to buying one of these for the following reasons :-
    1) Embarrassing number of fragile locomotives that need wheels cleaned.
    2) Increasing age related lack of dexterity and eyesight, aka clumsiness in handling.

    I first heard of this tool on the McKinley Railway YouTube video number 34 :-



    They have used it for many years and demonstrate it's use very well.

    Anyway Hattons have started to stock it at a more 'affordable', ho, ho price of £148, I know, ouch!
    But In my view if this will save me dropping two locos over the next 10 years it will have paid for itself. Maybe even just one loco the prices some are today.

    It arrived and I connected it up, comprehensive instruction booklet, all in German, luckily we use the same numerals and electrical notations. All my locos run on DCC with a typically 6 to 8 delay for acceleration and deceleration, which of course makes wheel cleaning more of a challenge, reducing delays to 0 would make life easier but extremely tedious. Motor connected to a simple 12VDC analogue controller and the track wires to nearby track.

    Switched on, set the motor going at nominally 10V, put on a dirty loco that defied manual cleaning, no movement, tried a Hornby 0-6-0 and a few Bachmann nothing, no interest from the locos. So tried a clean loco, just the same, arrrggh!

    Close inspection revealed two issues which may have suited old models e.g. pre 1970's.
    1) the flanges of these contemporary locos could not reach deep enough to touch the metal spring wires which power the loco across the pads.
    2) the wires were too close together, i.e. they would probably have been ok with the narrow back to back of Super 4 era Triang or Trix Twin but not my contemporary locos.

    So was it design or sloppy tolerances/build quality?

    Eliminating the tedious detail, the resulting mods were done in such a way that if they failed I could send it back unmarked, they were ultimately simple. The pictures that follow illustrate the overall unit and the the dismantled state (post the mods described below) which is easy as these parts just lift off each other.

    The fix was in three stages.

    1) The washers with flats cut into them (4 positions) were rotated by 180 degrees which lifted the springs in the centre area.
    2) Rubber sleeves were cut to length and split to fit them in place between the long grey central plates and the frame of the cleaning/polishing unit without dismantling the whole unit, this raised the spring to a working height.
    3) Further rubber sleeves were split and inserted between the grey plates to increase the back to back distance.
    All this took a fair bit of juggling to ensure the polishing bars would oscillate freely and the loco was powered. The sleeves used were approximately 1mm thick and are RS (Radio Spares) part number RS399-760, expandable rubber sleeves for wiring (not heatshrink). But anything similar would no doubt work as well.

    The pictures :-

    The basic unit after modification.
    mb1.JPG

    Dismantled.
    mb2.JPG

    Mod step (1) Washers in 4 positions rotated by 180 degrees
    mb3.JPG

    Mod steps (2) and (3), raising the wire at the ends and the centre sleeve insert to adjust the back to back in 4 positions.
    mb4.JPG

    This tool now seems to do the intended job, but with the price of this tool I should not have needed to spend an afternoon to make it work. I have also asked McKinley what they would advise.

    At least the mods are simple and effective, I may dismantle it completely and fit complete sleeves or spacer tubes later on, watch this space for further updates :hammer:, Jim
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
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  2. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    In response to a 'review' of the issues I sent to Hattons, they say they will pass my issues through their supplier to the manufacturer.
     
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  3. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for posting this, I've just received the same item from Hattons, and experienced the same non-performance as you have. I have e-mailed Lux-Modellbau with my complaint and also directed them to your article on this site, and the 00 Gauge Association standards for track and wheels, I suspect that HO standards are different from 00, hopefully they'll reply with a positive answer.

    I've also just ordered the chloroprene cable sleeving from RS. I don't quite understand the flats on washers and 180 degree rotation? do you mean slots rather than flats, so a u shape is made? presumably 1mm thick plasticard would do as an alternative for the washers?

    Kind Regards,

    Eve
     
  4. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Hi Eve,

    The washers or discs on my unit already had a straight cut across them, changing them from being an 'O' to a 'D', I think the geometry term would equate the cut to being a 'chord' of a circle. I did not need to cut them myself they were already D shaped.

    By rotating the discs such the 'chord' was pointing downwards and the uncut part of the disc upwards this raised the spring wires upwards towards the wheels such that they made contact with the shallow flanges of my contemporary locos.

    In practice HO scale wheels should be shallower than OO, so even worse, curious, anyway mine is working ok with the mods, I'm just having to chase Hattons for more cleaning pads. :hammer:

    I didn't get any feedback from McKinley, too busy I suppose, hope that clarifies things, if not get back to me again. :thumbup:

    Regards Jim
     
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  5. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Two not working as advertised is worrying, especially at that price.
    Not much help to yourselves, - I have the Woddland Scenics HO loco cleaner (also purchased from Hattons a few years ago), and must admit it just worked out of the box, and does a good job on wagons and coaches as well. It would be nice if they did an O gauge version.

    Paul
     
  6. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    O gauge version would be brilliant built in to a hidden running line but I dread to think what the cost would be. ( thinking about it a bit more, would it work with a 2-3kg loco running over it ? Possibly not unless the components were heavy duty) .
     
  7. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Locos vary enormously too regarding working out of the box, my diminutive Hornby Ruston loco runs well over pointwork without using the special pickup fitted conflat they come with, the Peckett 0-4-0 locos, not so good, they need some attention. Mind you some decoders are very fussy, I bought the Pecketts already fitted (Hornby decoder, probably a mistake), the Ruston has a Gaugemaster DCC23. :scratchchin:
     
  8. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Thanks for the explanation Jim, I modified my unit today by taking the sides off and inserting the rubber sleeves. The sleeves were cut to 7mm in length, and I also placed extra sleeves over the two middle supports to stop the rubber washers (rotated 180 degs) from moving too far from the floating grey plastic strips, these were cut to 5mm length. I did it one side at a time and it now works just fine, I've test run my Bachmann WD Austerity over it with sound on and it didn't falter.

    However I've not heard anything from Lux-Modellbau, if they do I'll post it here.

    Kind Regards,

    Eve
     
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  9. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    You're :welcome: Eve.
    Well I won't hold my breath for a reply, but perhaps we should charge them for our time ! :avatar:

    Regards, Jim
     
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  10. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Jim,

    Lux-Modellbau did finally reply and wanted to know the wheel flange heights. So I sent the OO Gauge Association standards to them. I also measured my Bachmann WD at aprx 0.8mm. I then thought of measuring my kit built SECR D1 with Markits Romford finesacle wheels with an aprx 0.55mm flange. and also my Hornby Castle (newer version) which had 0.6mm flanges. I have therefore advised Lux-Modellbau to design for 0.5mm flanges which should cover if not all, then the vast majority of models.
    BTW, although the Bachmann WD ran over the cleaner ok the others hesitated or refused, so theres a piece of work for me to do there, perhaps wrapping a couple of turns of insulation tape on top of or underneath the rubber sleeves.

    KR

    Eve
     
  11. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Hi Eve

    There's hope maybe, but for a device that has been around for some years and used by McKinley without any issues being flagged up I wonder why we are having this problem?

    You may still have a back to back issue, maybe not quite wide enough to contact the back of the wheel flanges firm enough.

    I would avoid insulation tape for all but a temporary fix as the adhesive can soon become gooey and messy.

    Regards, Jim.
     
  12. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Jim,

    Yes you're correct of course, but I was only going to use the insulation tape as a temp fix to get an idea of the measurement needed for a permanent sleeve. However before I took it apart again, I thought I'd try moving the springs outboard to almost touch the cleaning strips, and yes both the D1 and the Castle ran through ok, the Castle with sound still playing. I'm contemplating glueing 1mm thick plasticard strips behind the plastic strips that run inboard of the springs.

    I sent a new e-mail through to Lux-Modellbau advising them move the springs closer to the cleaning strips.

    The photo shows my WD on the cleaner in my fiddle yard area, and some of the associated electrical devices and controls.

    Cheers,

    Eve

    IMG_3648.jpeg
     
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  13. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Very nice. I like the Queen Mary brake van. :thumbs:

    Toto
     
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  14. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    That's progress, a small 0-4-0 would be the ultimate test, however running the cleaner too quick can almost throw a Hornby Peckett off it :avatar:

    You may find that you need a tray underneath to catch hairs and debris from the cleaning unit dropping on your control gear on the lower deck.

    I am probably going to fit some sort of cover over the drive gears to prevent debris from the pads dropping into the greased drive gears and cam mechanism.

    It was too late to do as you have done even in a fiddle yard, so my unit is placed on a card loco box with a hole cut into it (to take the motor section) acting as a flap so I can run it any place I need it and put it in the box when not in use.

    A loco is lifted on and off it via a Peco loco cradle from either end of the unit.

    Changes I have made since my first review is to remove excess wires for 3 rail operation and added a loco DCC decoder to the chassis and a pair of flying leads with croc clips to use it and connect it wherever I want it.

    What fun these labour saving devices are, mind you if it stops me wrecking a couple of locos through clumsy handling ...

    Regards Jim. :thumbup:
     
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  15. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Thanks Jim,

    Yes, I could easily place a tray underneath the unit, it's a good idea. Protection of the plastic gears would also be a good move, I've only just completed the installation of my cleaner, so I've not had the experience to draw upon. I've already deleted the three rail wiring, and I think I'm about to delete the middle spring, which would give me better access to place some sort of a gearing protection shield.

    I have to say that this "contraption" has kept me on my toes so far, frustrating at times but I've enjoyed it!

    Cheers,

    Eve
     
  16. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Yes, I think removal of the centre spring would be useful for access too, and then keep it as a spare part for when one of the active ones wear out, hopefully in the very long term only.:scratchchin:
     
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  17. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Jim,

    I've now removed the centre spring and cut a strip of 1mm plasticard aprx 9.4 mm wide and cemented it in place between the vertical grey ABS strips. I found that it's not easily done unsoldering the centre spring at either end, because there's bare multi-strand brass wire inside the spring. In the end I just cut it with my Xuron wire cutters. The whole contraption now looks better and works better. Deluxe Plastic Magic isn't very good at glueing the plastic to the vertical grey (ABS?) strips, I might try plastic pipe cement next!

    Cheers,
    Eve

    IMG_3835.jpg
     
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  18. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Hi Eve.

    Like it, sounds like the inner wire is to reduce electrical resistance.

    You may find that pipe cement may not work as I think water pipe is PVC and plastic electrical conduit is a different styrene to ABS.

    In my experience polystyrene cement does not weld ABS very well.

    There is an adhesives section in this group, you can find it from the home page, may be worth asking on there.

    Regards Jim
     
  19. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Yes that's exactly what the wire's for, I'm not sure that the grey plastic is ABS it may well be PVC, I do recall back in the '80's that plastic pipe was either, glues at that time were available for each, and then miraculously a glue became available that did both. I'm unsure of today's adhesives, after leaving Engineering I was in H&S for 13 years, and indeed they may well be different in Ireland than they once were in England, so I'll have a go and see what happens. It may well be that the Plastic Magic that I have is well past it's best, it's 5-6 years old, and spans the timeframe of moving to Ireland and 3 years without my railway whislt moving in and getting the house as we wanted it!
    Anyway all locos that I've used work over it ok and with sound, so I'm relatively happy with it now.
    Cheers,
    Eve
     
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  20. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi

    Acetone should work with the ABS - if with all your H & S experience your brave enough to use it :avatar:

    Certainly dissolves ABS filament to form a goo to help stick ABS 3D models to the plate - I now use resin printing, but I don't think I've improved the H & S aspects at all

    Paul
     
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