I'm sitting comfortably and ready to join the Dark Side...

The real dark side encompasses all scales and gauges, we can corrupt them all



Paul

 

Ask away grasshopper - I feel the force could be strong in this one

Paul

 

That's my coffee - get your own

 

Hi Martin

You may find this suggestion / solution a left field, but I'd suggest either the DCC++ system with JMRI, or MERG CBus modules with or without JMRI (easier with) for the layout control of Points, signals, turntable and mimic panel.

DCC++ Best with an Arduino Mega as that should be able all the interface requirements for both phase 1 & 2.
The Arduino has the I2C (seemingly pronounced eye squared see) bus, a 4 wire bus system, and you connect 16 port servo controllers to the bus, not too sure how many, but far more than you require. Each of these can then be operated using JMRI.

The MERG CBus modules are stand alone modules, connected via a 4 wire bus. You teach the modules what to do when a event takes place.
Two types of module events exist, a Producer (input) and a Consumer (output).
Originally it was nice and simple you had
Producer modules (e.g CANACE8C 8ch Layout Feedback Interface - Input) and
Consumer modules (e.g CANACC8 8ch Relay/Accessory Driver, CANACC4 - 4 Channel solenoid motor driver, CANACC5 4 Channel Constant motor driver, all output modules)

However things have moved on, and we have modules that have both inputs (Producers) and outputs (Consumers). We have modules like the CANPAN Mimic interface, which can have upto 32 inputs (panel switches etc) and upto 32 LED outputs, and you can use multiple modules on a layout / panel. Or the CANMIO Multi Input Output module.

So how does it work
Lets assume we have a Point operated by Output 1 on the CANMIO we'll give it an ID of 100,
On the CANPAN We have a switch connected to Input 1 in the off position the point is closed in the straight position, pull the switch (or press the push button if you want to use push buttons) and the input goes on.
Also on the CANPAN we have two LEDs connected to Output 1 - Point 1 Closed, Output 2 Point 1 thrown.
Now we teach the modules.
When we press or throw the switch for the point the CANPAN Input 1 creates a message and sends this on the CAN bus, we now teach CANPAN output 2 to switch on and output 1 to switch off - so the panel display has updated. We also have to teach the CANMIO module that when it sees that message it needs to change OutPut 1 to thrown, and move the point motor.
SIMPLES

Now if you're standing beside the points it's easy to verify that the point moved, as the panel updated immediately and does not actually display the phyisical postion of the point blades.
We can fix that, if we put a detector on the point which triggers whne the point has reach its position (2 detectors one for closed and one for thrown - Lets used CANMIO Inputs 1 for closed & 2 for thrown)

We need to change the way the CANPAN outputs 1 & 2 are setup. Now when CANMIO Input 1 is on (the point is in the closed position) then CANPAN Output 1 is on (Mimic Panel shows point in closed - straight position), and when the CANMIO input is off then the CANPAN output is off. The same is done for the Thrown position when CANMIO output 2 is on (point in closed position) then CANPAN out put 2 is on.
When the Point switch is operated CANPAN Input one sends an event message, the CANMIO sees the event and activates the point to move.
As soon as the point starts to move CANMIO Input 1 is no longer active the dectector is no longer made, so it sends an event message, and the CANPAN sees the message and deactivates Output 1.
This has the effect on the panel of the LED for the closed (straight) route switches off, however as the point has not finished moving the Thrown LED is also off, so you get real time display.
Once the point completes its movement, Input 2 on CANMIO is made, it then sends (Produces) a message, and the CANPAN see's the message (Consumes) and changes the state of output 2 to on and the mimic display the Thrown LED is now on.

If you use push buttons, then it is easy to have multiple Mimic Panels, each panel with its own CANPAN module(s), as each message is sent over the bus, any module can be taught to respond to a message.

For those that are worrying about the reliability of the MERG CBUS system, it utilises the Automotive Industry Standard CANBUS communication system, for both cost and reliability.

Keep thinking up the questions and we'll try answer / confuse the issue

Regarding the DC cab operation, I would have the ability for the fiddle yard operator to be able to drive a train from the layout in to the fiddle yard, and likewise the layout operator the ability to drive the train from the fiddle yard to the layout. It stops the calling from one operator to the other "how much further - oh ****!! i've gone too far" happening.

Hope this gives you a few ideas

Paul

 

Helped greatly by copious amounts of Portugeuse Rose - light but gets there just the same, although not always recommended at the initial planning stage, that's how Railway mania got started

Questions to ask yourself

1. How many people will it take to operate the layout?.
2. How many people will be available to operate the layout ?
3. How up to the challenge are you up for building the components and programming them yourself, or do you want them off the shelf.
4. How much automation due you want - full automation, partial, or none fully manual but with the option of remote control ?.
5. Due you want a computer involved ?

Just a few simple questions to get you started.

All questions will have answers and more questions, this way we learn from each other, and hopefully prevent ourselves going down a road we don't want, but that can be fun as well.

Paul

 

Hi Martin

Firstly, my condolences and my appologies for the late reply, I completely missed the reply.

You are correct, you don't have to use DCC to control the locomotives and can easily stay with DC for loco control.
Think of it as instead of connecting the DCC track out to the layout, you connected a DC track output from your DC controller.
You would tho' have to wire up all the control section (or cab sections) and decide who was controlling the sections - you or the PC. DCC is easier for this as all track sections are live and multiple loco's can be on the same piece of track and controlled independantly.
But you're used to DC control and know what needs to be done.

You just wont have the Decoder Pro, Roster functionality and the ability to drive the loco's via DCC. But wiring up the points, signals etc via accessory decoders will work the same, you are just using JMRI to control them so the Touch panel control will work for route selection, etc etc.

For sections of track that will need to be isolated or supplied from different controllers, then when you set up the routes, add output controlled relays to select the correct cab section to power the route.

It all depends on how many DC controllers you intend to have, and are they in defined areas, or will they share track areas of control, dependant on the loco movements. If you work this out first, it will then then be easier to work out how to do the rest.

If we get the basics correct, we can complicated the hell out of it later on

As for the plan - a roundy round is easier to operate for a sole driver, as you can set something in motion and kinda forget it, an end to end means you have to follow each movement, unless you fit something to catch train before it hits the deck.

Toto is an expert on this, I've seen the video of him recording a test run, as the class 33 approached the end of the completed layout, the realisation that the track ended with a 3ft sheer drop - a rather loud "oh dear me" (or words to that effect), as a £600 camcoder got dumped in one direction, a £150 controller sent in another direction as he leap to try and catch a £60 loco. We didn't laugh, and forgot the incident imediately .

Hopefully I've managed to answer your questions, and again so sorry for the late reply.

Paul