To DCC or not to DCC there are so many questions

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by Graeme, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    I briefly remember Zero 1, but I wasn't active in model railways then, too much into modifying old (even then) home computers and off-road RC car racing!
    The 1980s don't seem so long ago, oh how the decades pass .... :scratchchin:
     
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  2. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    To consolidate and not have multi threads I will in future only use this one for all my DCC questions, other updates to Ringbalin Light Railway HO Division | Platform1mrc.com.

    This is a link to another thread about my points plus some musings about whether to go to DCC. Using DCC to control points | Platform1mrc.com

    After relaxing with a cleansing ale or 3 I have realised that, as I only have 1 loop, if I want to run multiple trains then DCC is a must.

    I found this out after I tried to stop a train on one line the passing siding to let the another pass, the way is wired they are both powered at the same time. Plus I cannot run them in different directions with out running one backward.
     
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  3. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Now I have decided that I will be going DCC.
    According to TCS installations (HO Scale Installations | Train Control Systems (tcsdcc.com))
    I need;
    1x DP5 for my 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain
    2x DP2X-UK for my 2-8-0 & Shay
    1z M1 for my 0-6-0 Saddle Tank

    So now I am looking for recommendations on where to buy these TCS decoders in Australia, I will go overseas if I have to.
    I have had a bit of a scan of the net but cannot seem to find a supplier who has all these.

    Any help greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
     
  4. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    You do not necessarily have to use TCS decoders. Here is a list of TCS suppliers in Oz...

    Casula Hobbies : https://casulahobbies.com.au/collections/tcs-dcc-decoders/decoder (Sydney)

    Euro Hobbies : https://eurohobbytrains.com.au/brand/tcs-dcc/ (Sydney)

    Hobbyland : https://www.hobbylandaustralia.com.au/shop/trains/dcc-decoders/tcs-dp5-dcc-decoder-html/ (Sydney)

    DCC Solutions : https://www.dccsolutions.com.au/apps/webstore/ (Sydney)

    Frontline Hobbies : https://www.frontlinehobbies.com.au/brand/~-380 (Newcastle)

    Little Train Shop : https://littletrainshop.com.au/train-control-systems (Launceston)

    Brunel Hobbies : http://www.brunelhobbies.com.au/TCS/tcs.htm (Melbourne)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  5. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Thanks Gary,
    I went with TCS because of the installation ease, 3 plug in and 1 solder in plus they have the "goof proof" warranty with a replacement no matter how the decoder is damaged.
     
  6. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Any 8 pin, next 18 or 21 pin decoder will be the same. Just what it does and load you need to watch for.
     
  7. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    I have been using Lais DCC Decoders. They are cheap (£10.00/$18.00) and work fine. I use them in OO and O gauge, no problem at all. They come as 6 pin, 8 pin, 18 pin and 21 pin.

    https://laisdcc.com/decoders/

    I purchase mine from CM3 Models (UK) : https://cm3models.co.uk/

    Here is a Jennifer E. Kirk video of installation and running of Lais decoders



    Cheers, Gary.
     
  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    The TCS Goof proof waranty is good, but as the price is about twice that of the LAIS, how many goofs do you intend to make :facepalm: :avatar:

    For socketed loco's (DCC Ready), if you put the 8 pin decoder the wrong way round (not difficult if the manufacturer forgets to mark up pin 1 or it rubs off) some of the lights wont work and the loco will go backwards, just swap it round, the pins are wired so no damage will occur if it is fitted the wrong way round. 21 pin decoders are keyed so can't be put in the wrong way round, and I think the others are the same.

    The TCS decoders are good robust decoders - I have used 2 x T1's and are still good after 10 years, and can cope with 2A load - more than my PowerCab could provide.

    I remember the Zero 1, about 40 years ago, my friend and I built a loft layout for another friends two boys in secret for Christmas. It was way ahead of anything we had used before, but didn't like the cold, so we had the controllers (Master plus 2 slaves - Dad wanted something to play with as well) sitting on an electric heater. It was an eye opener, and when I came back in to the hobby was a big influence on what my replacement for my ageing Duette should be.

    Paul
     
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  9. steve

    steve Full Member

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    Thanks Gary.

    Good feedback and really good video.
    Steve
     
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  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I also had the zero one, infact dad only sold it about two years ago, having had it as a Christmas present back in 1982! (Or was it 3?)

    it was great for its time, but had the issue of a loco suddenly shooting off or not responding due to dirty track.
     
  11. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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  12. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Gary,
    Any idea about how long it took to get to Aust after ordering?

    I am looking at these 2
    https://cm3models.co.uk/laisdcc-decoder-chip-8-pin-direct-1-wire-fn2-part-no860020-1083-p.asp
    This one plugs directly into the socket

    https://cm3models.co.uk/laisdcc-decoder-chip-9-wire-nem652-8-pin--fn2-wire-part-no860021-2184-p.asp
    I think this one is the same as the other except the plug is on extender wires.

    I think I would go with the extender wire version because I do not know if the direct plug in one would fit, due to plug orientation taken from TCS plus I have to solder 1 in so I will just cut the plug off.
    I have sent an email to CM3 Models.
     
  13. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    I know there has been a delay in the post from the UK at the moment due to covid, but with Christmas over, I think 3 weeks would be the maximum wait time. I generally have orders come in 13-16 days from the UK.

    The spare wire hanging off the first decoder is for a stay alive (capacitor).

    Best thing you can do is to remove the body from your locomotive and measure up the inside of the shell as well as the vertical space above the motor/chassis. There is generally enough space within the confines of the shell to fit a decoder.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  14. RFS

    RFS Full Member

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    The spare purple wire is to provide the 4th function rather than stay-alive.
     
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  15. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Went to the local hobby shop and they showed me one of these decoders DCC decoder (anemodel.com) they are from Taiwan, anybody had any experience with these ones?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  16. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Not heard of that brand in the UK, but the more competition pricewise for the established brands the better as it helps keep prices down. If we could just get a few cheaper sound decoders, that would be even better!:giggle:
    Keith.
     
  17. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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  18. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    The online Lais decoders instructions state "Please make sure you know which pin is No. 1" so I am wondering if I plug in a Lais decoder will I do any damage?
    With other decoders I have looked at TCS, ANE, Hornby it appears that the loco will just not work till the plug is reversed.
     
  19. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Graeme

    With an 8 pin decoder, if you put the decoder in the wrong way, the accessory/direction lights may work, and the loco may run in the wrong direction, but no damage will occur.

    upload_2021-1-10_1-22-29.png

    As can be seen from the above the track feeds and motor connections will swap, but still connects motor to motor and rail to rail. For the lights the front and rear lamp will swap, but the Common Pin 7 will will swap to Pin 3 - not connected (on two function decoders), on 3 or 4 function decoders the lights if bulbs (like Heljan) only function 3 will work, but if LEDs then the will be reverse polarity so will not work - still no damage.

    Normally this shouldn't be a problem, but I have had models where the pin 1 marking was missing or difficult to see. But still nothing to worry about.

    Paul
     
  20. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Thanks Paul,

    Next question I am looking at 8 wire or 9 wire, both same price, the 9 wire is used for "stay alive" would I be better off buying the 9 wire for futureproofing?
    I have insulfrog points so may need something to get over them, but I am not sure as all my locos have a wheelbase longer than the frog except maybe for my 0-6-0.
    Probably answered my own question but just being cautious as this is all new to me.

    For Australian folk this is where I found them in Aust.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LaisDcc-Standard-1A-9-wire-DCC-Decoder-N-HO-860014/293880775830
     

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