To DCC or not to DCC there are so many questions

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by Graeme, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Another question (sorry for all of them but I do procrastinate according to SWMBO) are the Lais wires the same colour code as all other decoders eg TCS?
    I have to cut wires for my 0-6-0 wiring and have instructions from TCS that I am following.
     
  2. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    LaisDCC decoders comply with NMRA specs, so are 'standard' with regard to colour coding, ie, same as all other NMRA compliant decoders. Incidentally, the 9th wire you mention on the 8 pin decoders is NOT for a 'Stay-Alive', the wire is purple and is for the 4th function. Lais decoders with provision for a 'Stay-Alive' have an extra black and a blue wire (which emerge from the insulating sleeving at the opposite end to the normal wiring on the 6 pin version), they do a couple of add-on 'Stay-Alive' pcb's, though I'm not familiar with the actual connections as I've not used them personally. Doubtless other forum members will advise.
    I don't know what brand of loco's you are intending to fit a decoder into, BUT please check if any are Hornby as there are a number of known issues regarding wrongly connected wires to the actual socket, unmarked 'pin1' etc on several of their loco's, some of which have caused blown decoders. I would strongly suggest if you have a multimeter that you do a continuity check between the right hand drive wheels (As you look from the loco cab) and what is marked as 'pin 1' (with the blanking plug or decoder removed) just to make sure that this is correctly marked, it should show continuity of the circuit, also some Hornby models don't have the correct wire colours as manufactured, Red from Right Hand wheels, Black from Left Hand wheels, and there has also been an incidence of the drive wheels being correctly wired but pickups on the front bogie wired oppositely on at least one model! In recent years, Hornby 'Quality Control' from their Chinese factory has left something to be desired, and that's putting it mildly, so forewarned is forearmed.:thumbup:
    Keith.
     
  3. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    Thanks Keith
    8 pin it is.
    All my locos are Bachmann Spectrum made back in the 1990s when quality control was still good so should not be an issue but I will check.

    Just ordered then (4 for $110) so my journey to DCC is nearly complete
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  4. Graeme

    Graeme Full Member

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    My Lais decoders have arrived so the next step is installing and programming them I suppose, this leads to the next question.
    To set up my locos I believe I need a programming track that has to be separate to the rest of the layout.
    Do I achieve this by use of a switch that directs the bus to the programming track while programming is done then back to the main track so that locos can be run using the one controller?
    This seems the most logical way am I correct?
     
  5. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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  6. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    The way I've set my main/programming tracks up, together with the facility to also 'run-in' newly bought loco's is as follows.
    My personal operating system is Lenz, which has a separate set of connections for the programming track, though others may be different. In my case, I used a double pole, double throw, centre off toggle switch, the output from this goes to my rolling road, which is my 'programming/test track' as opposed to a length of track. DC volts via an ancient Hornby controller and DCC programming output supply from my Lenz controller both feed into the switch and I select which switch position I require depending on what I need to do. I find this setup is useful particularly with newly bought loco's either for 'running-in' new ones or testing of secondhand ones on DC first as there is no use converting a loco to DCC if it doesn't run properly on DC first. With a rolling road, you can easily set up and change CV's before trying a loco out on running tracks. Hope this helps.
    Keith.
     
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  7. David Mitchell-Todd

    David Mitchell-Todd Full Member

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    The LaisDCC stay alive units that I have are fitted with blue and black wires, like the decoders.
    Personally I am not convinced about LaisDCC decoders. I have tried a few and they were OK. They seem to be fine if you justwant to plug them in and run as they are. But they do not seem to like being tinkered with. I have tried fine tuning the CVs using my SPROG and ended up doing a factory reset.
    I can see the attraction of LaisDCC, especially if you have a lot of locos. The last decoder I bought was a Zimo and I will stick with those in future, even if they are twice the price.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  8. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    My DCC system is the German Lenz one and programming or altering CV's is quite straightforward so I have no need of a 'Sprog' and have found it simple and no issue to change CV's on the Lais decoders though I appreciate that on some systems it is only possible to read CV's or do basic changes. I am now moving into 0 gauge which could mean that I will need to go for other brands of decoder as some larger loco's have current draw above the capacity of the Lais decoders. Zimo are indeed an excellent decoder, my choice where sound is required, and on a par pricewise with the alternative ESU ones which I have in the past had issues with and have avoided since.
    Keith.
     
  9. David Mitchell-Todd

    David Mitchell-Todd Full Member

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    I use a Bachmann EZ command which I bought 2nd hand to experiment with DCC. It was fine when I only had one DCC loco, but now I have several it is showing it's limitations. Setting the control knob to half-way means a slow steady speed for my Fairburn tank engine, but the same setting for my LMS diesel shunter sets it off at 120MPH. Hence I bought the SPROG to tweak the CVs. With hindsight I should have bitten the bullet and gone for a 'proper' controller.
     
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  10. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    If it's any help and in case you're not aware, if you go online to laisdcc.com, you'll find a very helpful 19 page manual to download which gives you all the information you'll ever need for their decoders. Now that I've begun in 0 gauge, I've bought a second Lenz setup for that. For around £100-£150 on Ebay you should be able to pick up a secondhand Lenz LZM 100 controller, LH100 handset and maybe the 2 amp transformer if you're bothered but make sure it's version 3.6 software if you do. That's how I got hold of both my setups as new they are more than double that cost. There is an LZM200 now but it's very pricey!
    Keith.
     
  11. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    I use NCE Procab and often have to re-program decoders that have reset their address to 3 due to a short circuit (mainly Bachmann decoders) and do it on the main while the rest of the crew on my layout, keep driving trains because I select address 3 of the recalcitrant decoder to change with no problems - in fact setting maximum speed of the loco requires quite a few feet of the mainline & program on the main combined with a speedometer like Accutrack http://sprog.us.com/speedo.html
     
  12. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I also use JMRI - Decoder Pro, to save all my settings - it's also easier to modify the CV settings within Decoder Pro.

    With the settings saved, it takes seconds to restore the setting if the decoder reverts to factory standard. Also, very handy for cloning a decoder, on my Bachmann DMU's which required a decoder per coach, I installed the decoder into the coach with the motor bogie, and configured the decoder. The an identicle decoder was fitted into the non-powered coach, and the settings for the original decoder were uploaded into the second decoder.

    Paul
     
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  13. David Mitchell-Todd

    David Mitchell-Todd Full Member

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    Yes, I have used the LaisDCC website. You have to as the decoders come with no documentation whatsoever. I do not have a huge experience of DCC by any means, but they are the only decoders I have ever had issues with, so I wouldn't buy them again. However, they must be doing something right or else they would soon be out of business.

    I had briefly considered the Lenz controllers, along with the Roco Multimaus. There are quite a few on eBay but most seem to be in Germany, so when you add postage and import duty they cost more than a new Powercab.
     
  14. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Really the choice boils down to whatever you are happy with and find easy to operate David. The best way is to visit a retailer who specialises in DCC and try a few setups or a show where you could possibly try a few, but of course that's out of the question with the present situation. I prefer a button operated speed selection as per the Lenz LH100, but some prefer the LH90 rotary speed control, so at least Lenz does give you a choice. Personally I've tried the rotary control and just couldn't get on with it so sold it on, but again, it's what you're comfortable operating with. If you're not in a rush, I'd wait until retailers open again (hopefully not too long now) then have a look around and try as many different brands as you can.
    Keith.
     
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  15. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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  16. David Mitchell-Todd

    David Mitchell-Todd Full Member

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    The Lenz kit does look really nice and I am going to keep an eye out for it on eBay. If NCE really are going bust and my Powercab doesn't arrive soon, then Lenz (and ROCO) would seem to be a good second choice.
     

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