Victoria Road

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by paul_l, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. scottystitch

    scottystitch N Gauge Society Publicity Officer Full Member

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    Paul,

    That is looking good. It will be interesting to compare it at the weekend with the photos I took last year (and posted on this thread earlier).

    I'm looking forward to seeing Victoria Road again.
     
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    With a bit of luck, we shall be hitting Frews bar on Saturday night for a mid exhibition review ( and refreshment ). Sleeping by 9.00 pm. :avatar: ....... And no shinnies.
     
  3. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Toto wrote:
    [quote: ....... And no shinnies.[/quote]

    C'mon Tom, "No shinies"......... Pull the other one! The only way you'll go home without any "shinies" will be if you left your wallet and credit cards back in Edinburgh!:avatar::avatar:

    Keith.
     
  4. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Keith, we've gone one better - Morag (my better half) has offered - insisted, to look after both Tom's and my wallets. :facepalm: :avatar:

    Most of the packing done ......

    Decided to let Tom give me a hand splitting the boards apart tomorrow (then I can blame him for any damage :avatar:)

    Will post more tomorrow

    Paul
     
  5. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Don't worry, I'll have some cash stuffed away in reserve for Frews bar. Nice pint in there and just reward for our efforts on Saturday. :tophat:

    I'll let you know when I think I'll be up. Depends what time I get me work finished at although I am working from home tomorrow so there is no drive home from Glasgow. :tophat:

    Still got the stuff to look out of. The shed and the car to load up.

    Cheers for now.

    Toto
     
  6. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's a list of items to take;

    a. Toffee
    b. Claw
    c. Lump
    d. Sledge

    Ian vt

    Er ... sorry missed one;

    e. Jack
     
  7. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    That's what I was afraid of Ian, Tom splitting the boards apart.......with a hammer!!!!!:avatar::avatar::avatar:

    Keith.
     
  8. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    Errr... Mr Paul... I don't suppose you need a new best friend? :hismiley: You look to be just the man whose advice I will be needing for my own project... I'm Steve, very pleased to meet you!

    traverser dimesions.jpg ELITE #3 LAYOUT ALL.jpg

    I'll be looking for indexing stepper motor solutions for both a turntable and a traverser, both in a small space. My locos are DCC with a NCE Twin so no accessory control (and none wanted). I've seen a stepper motor with an Apple TV type remote control and that could be just perfect, we'll see.

    I'm waiting for this linear slide (the traverser) to arrive from the Far East and then if you wouldn't mind I'll be back in touch. I'll ditch / donate the attached stepper motor as I'll need a pancake to fit in the space, and thus may as well have a second pancake the same to control the turntable. I had been chewing over a Fleischmann unit but would prefer a Hapo-Bahn turntable (https://www.hapo-bahn.de/drehscheiben/index.html) for the aesthetics which will thus need an indexing stepper drive and control system. I've seen many with speeds higher than a prototypical 1rpm so maybe I need to look carefully at gearbox choices too... Thanks again, happy modelling!

    (for others considering a longer traverser option this maybe of interest - the 500mm refers to the traversing travel range but depends only on the rail length, other lengths are available. There's nothing to sop you buying extra running blocks for the outer rails if you need to traverse a platform of four parallel rails for example)

    Snip20181128_7.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  9. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Steve, my newest bestest mate - Toto you better watch out :avatar:

    As you have managed to wade through the Viccy Road thread, you may find this thread of interest Toto's Traversers

    For my latest traverser - if you manage to stay awake during the read, you will see I have moved onto fully supported rails, but its worth the read (in places :avatar:), to see the journey.

    Any questions just ask.

    Paul
     
  10. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    Spot on Paul - and thank you - interesting that you also stumbled across the very same 8mm rail kit that I referred to earlier!

    Right, it should be bedtime but I've lots of reading to do! I've also got a 3D printer somewhere, a Dremel model - no doubt covered in cat and surrounded by other debris... I never really got on with mine, I think because of the frustration of trying to convert models that had previously created in 3D CAD (Rhino) into the required STL format and then getting them to print put before the nozzle jams up and creates a sugar nest of fibres...

    Anyways, back to post #1!! Very much obliged - I'll be back.... o_O Buona notte!
     
  11. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Oops Dundee... Toto might stop having all his kits delivered to your place now. :avatar:
     
  12. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    I've got that covered Paul - we live in Trieste, Italy - the postal system is so unreliable that he'd never dare send anything this far east... your extra workload is quite secure! :lol:

    ps - up to post #101 & so far all looking lahdi !!

    Ooops... Paul, I spoke too soon - #111... it's all going pear shaped!

    I've dug out the drive belts I bought for Viccy Rd, 900-2GT-6 which translates to 900 teeth 6mm wide GT2 belt in a loop. Which works out as approx 450 mm loop. Which is a bit too short, I want to get the lead screws close to the outer edges to help prevent table twisting.As the traverser table is 4ft long, I can either buy bigger belts, or get a twin pulley for the motor and use two belts - as shown below

    [​IMG]
    The Grey lines are the lead screws, the purple being the GT2 belts, with the motor in the middle.


    It's quite possible that I'm reading too quickly but... why would you opt for belts when you have a direct stepper motor screw drive? And why two? Surely there can't be any play on those rails, and if there a little flex over the span then it's solved by simply swapping out for a 12mm version... As I understand the intended configuration there's only one screw shaft driving the central block which is bolted through to the table surface and all remaining rails are weigh supporting guides only. Over a 4ft length I'd be looking for 4 guide rails and one drive screw. Use two drives and any slight variation between them will skew and jam the table's movement, I think that's asking for trouble... Hmmm...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  13. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hey don't tell Toto... he'll be out there like a shot to empty your treasured wine stocks ... seriously what I meant about Toto posting all his new loco kits to Dundee Paul's house is a bit of a forum joke :thumbs: anyway glad you are here since I haven't a clue really about electrics and stuff.
     
  14. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    Ahhh.... thanks for the head's up... we absolutely don't have the charming village of Prosecco only 5km up the road... it was destroyed in an earthquake, every last brick and all of the grapes in the fields suffered a genetic contamination from a passing flock of green peppers... :confused: The water's quite nice.... but very bubbly!

    "anyway glad you are here since I haven't a clue really about electrics and stuff" - I'm so happy to know that here there's a club to join for that too!
     
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  15. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Steve

    The twin belt / screw method was employed, as with a single drive, when the weight got concentrated at one end the traverser table would snake / twist and even bind and cause the drive to jump or stall. The twin drive overcame the issue without having to have two motors.

    The fully supported rails (when set parallel) did not have any twisting issues and were very smooth.

    Viccy Road will be betting a traverser upgrade, and the supported rails will be part of the upgrade.

    Paul
     
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  16. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    Ahh that makes sense - I'd sorta figured out that it must have been a reaction to a technical issue. I suspect the 8mm rods will flex with load over that sort of span and the required tolerances for free running are every tight indeed. Before you go back to Viccy road maybe have a look at a mounted guide rail rather than a suspended rail which acting as a beam is always susceptible to sag - I suspect that's where you issue arose from?

    [​IMG]

    I'll be putting a fair load on my traverser's carriage wheels when I hang the cantilever off the back of it; sadly only experience will tell me whether it was a bad idea or not!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  17. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I found with the 8mm rod that it sagged in the middle, by up to 3 mm, I've overcome the issue by using support bearings under the traverser table which run against the underside of the table and help stop the sagging - even with Toto's Heljan loco's it worked at both Dundee and Elgin shows.

    Support bearings

    Paul
     
  18. dpaws

    dpaws Full Member

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    Well done Paul - looks like this linear slide concept has taken you around the houses and back again! I also have the 12mm supported rails version which I've tinkered with - and at 12mm it all starts getting quite heavy!

    Incredible that none of your work comes up with google - so sad 'cos reading about your project could have saved me hours of trial and error at my end - made worse of course because each time you order new components you have to wait so long for everything to arrive from the far east!

    The only other chap I found online with very similar ideas is here: http://wp11092200.server-he.de/rbs/sondermodule-0.php

    trav.jpg

    By hand there's too much stiction in the bearing races to move the bridge by hand without upsetting the stock, hence I started to look at a screw drive with a mechanical advantage...
     
  19. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    So ........ it's been a good two years since I've posted on this thread, 'cos not a lots happened. Well apart from changing scale to O gauge, given notice of redundancy, and finally early reirement in December which quickly turned into goverment imposed house arrest, seemingly I and around 40 million others have to wait to get intimate with a couple of pricks before house arrest may be eased.

    The layout is in storage, and looking to come out so to say. However it's decision time, is this a scrap and start again or can it be upgraded / extended, or just left as is.

    The new permanent home would be in the shed approx 19'6" x 11'6" ish - so should be able to fit across the short wall, but would take out 1 side of the shed.

    Pro's and cons

    Scrap
    It's not O gauge
    It's code 100 track
    End to end, so no continuous running - I do like to sometines just watch the trains go by.



    [​IMG]

    It was designed to fit in the 11'6" space in the spare room / study / man cave, hence the weird shape of the fiddle yard traverser, and tracks being towards the rear edge of the layout.



    Max train length is 3'6" (constrained by the fiddle yard)
    Originally designed as a single track, but later got used as a twin single track, as a double track trains could not leave platform 1 - may be a membership thing, never want to encourage anyone to leave Platform 1.

    Upgrade
    SWMBO likes the layout especially all the buildings
    With the Low relief Canopy roof at the station end, the two main lines could be easily extended to form part of a double track loop.

    [​IMG]

    Placing a reverse crossover from the Down line to the Up line within the original layout footprint would solve Platform 1 and parcel depot departure issue for double track.
    You can't see the track easily so tends to hide the fact it code 100.

    [​IMG]



    Although 19'6" x 11'6" sounds big, in O gauge its the equivalent of a trainset oval so cant really see me having a O gauge layout in the shed (apart from Modules being able to be built and run down the centre of the shed, able to go to exhibitions).
    I still have a reasonable amount of OO gauge stock so would be able to run a larger empire without too many issues, and you never know what Santa may bring.
    There is plenty of space to have long running lines, goods yards and branch lines for trains to go to and come from, as well as reasonable fiddle yards, I like the idea of A1/2/3's,V2's and Stanier 4-6-0's pulling 6 coaches and May be even a redirected A4 from the Glasgow - Aberdeen expresses, and the odd Perth based Coronation a wee bit lost

    Leave as is
    I will need to re-align the fiddle yard to entrance roads to allow both roads to access the fiddle yard without having to move the traverser, or correct the aglignment for double track spacing - its a little off due to the geometry of Peco 3way and a double slip, add the trailing crossover, and just join the layout to the "one" and have it as a surburban branch terminus.
    Automate the movements - primarily DMU, but also have working Colour Light signals - so not too difficult
    Would need more buildings for the backscene / rear of the layout
    Could go back on the exhibition circuit.

    mmmmmmmmm ..........

    Now a lot of work needs doing on the shed - insulate the roof, install additional main lighting (Toto will confirm the single 4ft flourescent tube doesn't quite cut it), and a lot of clearing out. Add some form of heating - Diesel Warm air heater looking most favourable option at the moment, create a fume cupboard for the resin 3D printers and IPA wash system. As well as all the jobs SWMBO and Spawn of SWMBO have had two years to build up :facepalm:

    Any thoughts, will Victoria road grow in to the one or is it heading for the skip :scratchchin:

    I must admit I've not really worried about authentic operations before, and as I would tend to operate in "Johnny nae mates" mode, I would like to have a good level of automation, with a proper job list with realistic operations, that could be either done by a human, or delegated to an electronic friend.

    What da ya think

    Paul
     
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  20. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hey ...... you've got a mate. We just canny play trains the noo. :avatar: I'm missing the bacon sarnies and donoughts. Not to mention the coffee that turns the tips of your toes up.

    Go easy with the automation. The DMU's maybe .... but keep the odd straggler for fun.

    Toto.
     

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