Airfix 14xx 0-4-2t loco

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by Andy_Sollis, Apr 15, 2022.

  1. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    See how we go. May be worth sticking with the current screw and hole etc and then insulating else where and fibre washer.
    I’ll keep you posted … won’t be for a few days.
     
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  2. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    If the chassis castings are the usual Mazak Andy then you'll struggle to solder to it. Best advice I can give is to use solder tags under screws, one on each chassis half or failing that, fabricate some new wiper pickups. If there is enough clearance under the loco, then Araldite a bit of Veroboard or PCB to the chassis underside and solder the wipers to that and forget the plunger pickups.
    Keith.

    Just had a thought! As you are using DCC, does your control setup have the facility to run DC loco's? On my Lenz setup, if I programme 0000 into the handset, then I can run one DC loco via the handset, something I've never tried, but it's in the handbook. That way, if it's acceptable, you'll save yourself a good bit of pain and work, with a simple solution, just leave the loco as it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
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  3. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Phew, certainly a job and half Keith :facepalm:
     
  4. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Certainly is Jim, begs the question 'Is it worth the hassle?' I know the loco belongs to Andy's son, and you always want to help and encourage the 'young 'un's', especially your own, and I like a challenge myself, but with Andy's skills in 3D printing, and the fact that Dundee Paul has already printed a full loco, might the best suggestion be to create and print a new chassis? That way, there are no insulation headaches to overcome, a new set of wheels gets rid of the dreaded traction tyres, and you can then fit an up-to-date can motor and make a proper job of it. A lot of work I know, but with the skills Andy already has, he of all people is "the man that can" I reckon.
    Keith.
     
  5. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Well I am watching this with a keen eye and reckon mine will be a long way off to convert and I will probably keep it attached to an autocoach in which case I would put all the pickups and the decoder in the auto coach and just run the decoder motor wires to an insulated motor.

    Extra weight and pickup drag in the coach would not help it's tractive effort but it should still be enough to maybe attach the odd van or milk tank to the autocoach.

    So far worse than a Palitoy-Mainline but at least it doesn't appear to have the notorious splitting axle tubes that plague the Mainline and early Bachmann locos.

    Jim
     
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  6. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    First bit first, no it’s a one piece block not the split ones like the other split chassis locos.

    Personally, I don’t like vero board. It won’t stand up to the kids handling and frankly, if I did, it would end up looking like a bodge. I’d rather keep it as contained and looking as original as possible.. looks better for selling on then if push comes to shove.

    our controller doesn’t support a DC loco.. the last one I did try with my ZTC which did support loco 0 buzzed that much it burnt the motor out, so I won’t be trying that again.
     
  7. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Er… no.. not my kind of modelling. Buildings yes, wagons I’m touching on, locos.. no. Maybe detail parts, but I’m not going there.. I don’t think it would have the weight having a resin chassis. It’s going to far in to realms I don’t understand, such as the kit built locos. I’ve done two in the past ( an OO Yorkshire 02 and the O-16.5 Leek and Manifold) and don’t have any desire to do any more. I get no enjoyment from sourcing this bearing or that bush from half a dozen manufacturers.
    I’ll be sticking to what I’ve got…

    I think the best bet is however looking at what tools we do have beforehand, for screws and taps and drilling the chassis. It only needs one for the top motor feed as the bottom one can be taken off the copper wipe strip hidden in the plastic bottom half of the chassis (keeper plate?)

    I’ll do it it bits, so will stick with the original wheels and see how we go. If we find that is an issue we can then look to replace them. That way it can help others..

    Hope that explains my thinking.. after all, as we both said, it’s for Alex, I want something he can use and be left with, not a prototype that falls a part or has to be laid up after 5 mins due to excessive wear in a place we didn’t foresee. (And copying that chassis so screw holes and clips attached is no easy task!!! :facepalm::giggle::giggle:)

    Andy
     
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  8. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    I don't know how old your Alex is and how dexterous he is but you are attempting one hell of a challenge here, rather you than me :faint:
     
  9. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    You make fair points Andy, and looking at converting this loco might be attempting the impossible or at best a severe headbanging session (nice when you stop!) and even I don't go looking for that kind of hassle if I can avoid it, despite liking a challenge. Not being a GWR fan personally, so no knowledge of what might suit, but are there any other easily available models with a more modern chassis that could be grafted in to replace the existing one, perhaps from another regions tank loco? Might be looked upon as sacrilege perhaps, but if it does the job and Alex is happy with it, who cares what the 'Rivet Counters' might think. Ebay often has a selection of sellers with chassis and I've had a few myself for various projects, just another option that could work in this case.
    Keith.
     
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  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Not a bad idea re the wheel sets? Not sure my skills at removing a gear wheel from an axle though? Not something I ever recall doing?

    actually, looking at the job in hand, I think it’s about an hours work. Got a list from an engineering friend of hole sizes to drill for whatever BA screw you want to use. I list it below incase it’s of use..

    mainly, my issue now is shift work, 3 kids and sleep to find the time to sit down and actually do it.

    6B6FDD6A-60DF-42AB-B3F3-36416CF4E3C3.jpeg 6AFEB60C-E9CA-4AB5-ACF5-51402F1D319D.jpeg
     
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  11. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Hi Andy, note that odd BA sizes are almost completely interchangeable with integer metric screw threads as the thread forms are near identical e.g. in your table 5BA and an M3 can be used interchangeably in most cases, especially for less critical work.

    Metric sizes like 3.5 will be compatible with even BA sizes.

    Same goes for spanners and nut-spinners.

    Jim
     
  12. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Good to know Jim. Mainly going with what I have in the tool box from what i have inherited.
    It’s been suggested by my friend Paul that it may not be worth trying to tap a thread in as the screw/bolt may well self cut in the monkey metal.
     
  13. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Most likely, but use a steel screw/bolt as a brass one might snap flush with the entry to the hole as it can be rather brittle compared with steel, Jim
     
  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah that’s a fair point! I’ll take that on board.

    once I make the start I’ll post progress
     
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  15. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Also don't forget the electrolysis that can take place with dis-similar metals such as brass, steel and mazak. Any dampness and the screw can lock solid into the mazak due to electrolytic corrosion, and a loco left in a cold loft could cause this.
    Keith.
     
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  16. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, once it’s in, I’m hoping it won’t need to come out again!
    Unless your thinking expansion and cracking the block?
     
  17. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm repairing some locos for a mate and the chassis are solid blocks of white metal that I'm hoping to take the current pick up for the chip from. Reading Keiths reply regarding the problems of soldering to mazac I thought I too would drill and tap into the chassis and using an 8BA screw with the wire soldered to it. I should imagine, if I give the screw a rub with some grease or copper slip it will not react so quickly with the Mazac.

    Pete.
     
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  18. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Solder to a brass screw I presume?
     
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  19. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Exactly what I'm thinking Andy. Metal left in a cold loft might well experience condensation on it and the electrolytic action (in the same way as rusting) can cause an expansion between screw and mazak block. I could suggest maybe coating the screw thread with a copper grease (Coppaslip), but that might make things worse with a third metal in the mix.......I'm no chemist or metallurgist, so who knows what might happen.:(
    Keith.
     
  20. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes mate.
    I don't know what to say Keith, you could be right though I imagine it would be quite a while before any problems showed up, personally I reckon it's worth trying as the locos are useless at the moment.

    Pete.
     

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