Another Leek..

Discussion in 'Line Side Buildings' started by Andy_Sollis, May 1, 2020.

  1. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    the thing I find odd here though is that you would have your back to these when your operating the frame?
    Was there a reason for this?
     
  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Elton frame being a "back to traffic" set up followed a North Stafford practice where either platform mounted boxes or boxes where sighting determined frame position followed this operating style, remember Elton had a block shelf over the levers but the shelf was a box type affair with access lid from behind. Elton was never fitted with Tyres one wire three position blocks, it had a Tyers Number 5 tablet machine to Hassal Green which released Ettilee Heath Number 1 and 2 ground frames in the transfer yard ( originally the token section was to Wheelock platform box but became Hassall Green when Wheelock was abolished with the closure of the chemical branch to Brunner Mond and the abolition of Malkins Bank box during the 1930's. In conjunction with this rationalisation the line between Wheelock station and Hassal Green was singled by the LMS.

    Now the board frame in the picture is / was only ever for telephones, the arm indicators and lamp repeaters were located on the shelf along with a brass gong and a morse tapper switch to Sandbach Junction. We must also remember that the Foden siding and spur off to Prings Wire Works was also worked as a single line from Elton, the trapping protection for this was the head shunt into the Cooperative coal stage. presumably the gong was used to communicate movement onto the spur with Sandbach box if Sandbach wanted to shunt the "Up" line clear of stabled wagonloads. I have no idea in the box where these other instruments were kept, the Tyers Number 5 was originally located in the Crossing House but in later years was transferred to the box on a stillage below the telephone shelf.

    For information some other NSR boxes with frames back to traffic were Clifton Crossing, Pipe Gate and Norton in Hales.
     
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  3. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Once again, any design goes through a number of permutations before you get it right... that’s why it’s a Prototype no?

    so, continuing with the internals, I’d mixed and matched some earlier items. Now it was time to start the next section.. The locking shelf.. or, as the NSR has it, lack of one as such!
    Fruit kindly shared some photos he had acquired of the Ford Green box which had (at the time) been moved to the Foxfield railway. Sadly it never saw any further use but the photographs showed some really useful details.
    D3517EA1-7A43-4450-A65B-9DFF2553BF99.jpeg

    As you can see in the floor, there is a large rectangular hole where the locking frame was located and on the window frame a bracket. A rather strange ornamental bracket, but a bracket none the less for holding the Block instruments and telephones.

    they tend to be on two bits of what from other photos are best described as 2x1 timber ! As you can see running in front to the second bracket off screen.
    D89E86AB-394D-46DD-8A3C-B2AB54D5EC85.jpeg
    so with no sizes or better photos (and yes, look carefully there is another bracket below as I have modelled!)here’s one we made earlier!
     
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  4. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Then it came to placing said items. Not too difficult as just bolt on to the window uprights. Work out the height and delete the remaining unused parts from the earlier version. 7CBB5F29-7AAF-4418-AF1E-DF564B04BFDE.jpeg with the NSR block Instruments fitted but still with the GW/BR style shelf.

    F903207E-70B4-4FEE-9F99-AEB61C401509.jpeg

    And from above.
     
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  5. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Time to tidy it up. The great thing about the computer work is... well, you can simply delete some bits! Let’s take the box away and just leave the parts we’re working on. D26A41F2-6EF8-47B6-94F9-DE398B95F4CA.jpeg

    and from the side

    BE1D7067-6B34-418E-BAF9-0361815B2147.jpeg

    and yes.. every item here was drawn by myself.
     
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  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    It's turn out supremely well I think brilliant design drawing Mr S:tophat::tophat::tophat::tophat::thumbs:
     
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  7. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    So, although when printed some of this will be painted or transfers, I like to take the time to look at what we can replicate on the computer. You never know if one day I can put this in one of those “unreal engines” or what ever that are called that allow you to walk around a building using 3D technology. If we can get it looking something like on the computer, why not....

    so, what do we need to draw?
    First up is the track section displays that trigger when a train enters section. 530815BB-9F15-400A-BBB6-326DDE117B2F.jpeg
    I’m just pondering about text. I could do it but as this is a 4mm scale model at the moment it’s gonna be small.
    Next up... 6C9CEBCF-EEA4-4BD7-9984-97EE6C253D6A.jpeg Distance signal repeater. I need to draw one. Won’t take me long I suspect.


    Next to do is this. I can’t make my mind up if I need one or two?
    1708A16D-D550-46F4-89B8-0A2C9E0EEBA8.jpeg

    Could be interesting to try and draw.
    These were mounted on the boards above the levers.
     
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  8. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    The last discussion we have had was the actual position of the lever frame. We have been discussing if it’s central or off set to the right (as we look at it) normally the lead in rail to the front of the box (I’m told) suggests where the frame was located. Ford Green does appear from the internal photos posted before to be off set, but Leek shows the lead in rail to be equal across the front of the box. So we are kind of at a stop till we can find any hard evidence.
    8468FFBB-5108-4477-BAA1-5BB4EBFF605B.jpeg

    First up though was to extend the two horizontals. I realised my error when I’d placed the left hand support to the wrong window pillar, so had to move it left a window frame.

    F6474EBE-8AF8-40BF-ADB8-FAB8003EA2FD.jpeg

    now we start adding the apparatus - I’ve made a cutaway box to show it all better without obstruction...

    This would make a great display model thinking about it.:scratchchin::giggle:
     
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  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Today I focused on starting a different part of the project, the bog, s*it house, toilet or lamp room - whatever you would like to call it.

    It’s a simple affair, simply 4 walls that sit along side the locking room, two doors and a window. Sloping tiled roof. D02BC8E0-CF0A-4ADB-86ED-3BFC0568429F.jpeg
    I’ve completed the brick work and added the doors and the stone bases. There will be a window on the front side to the right of the door. No idea what’s on the back side sadly.
    I have the roof and facia boards to do.
     
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  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    This afternoon has been quite productive - just the roof tiles left to add at a later date.
    DD2C43EE-BD99-4556-8942-20AC0F603339.jpeg
    from the south west side
    9A9A5218-5338-4376-A5BB-EB9F9F3080C1.jpeg
    from the west
    B7D38E95-32DB-47CA-9FC9-E414EBAE2ED9.jpeg

    And as it would have been seen by the approaching shunter.

    more maybe tomorrow.
     
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  11. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Andy I believe I have found proof of the precise position of the lever frame in the box, the frame should be positioned centrally with the same floor space either end for the signalman to access the sliding windows, this is an important point for the purposes of flag signalling particularly with regard to Rule 55 and Detention of Trains on Running Lines under Regulation 4 of the Signalling General Appendix... you'll know about Rule 55 being a Guard on the CVR.

    So when you alter the frame position to be central also extend the top and lower wooden beams of the block shelf to match the same length exactly, I'll explain why in a minute, also at the same time maybe move the Rudyard Absolute block instrument slightly more to the left so that it is to the side of levers 37 38 39 and 40.

    Now to locate the signal arm repeaters... I've been studying photos of the signals this evening and the photos don't lie, it is good practice for signal arm repeaters to be located over the respective lever for the signal it is representing so this would have been the case at leek also. Both Distant signals have arm repeaters as we already know... now to the cruncher which makes sense of why we must move the frame position. Looking at photos, signal 3 which is the Down Rudyard Starter and is a co acting lattice post has a cast iron battery box fitted at the base, further study of the photo shows that the lower arm was fitted with a contact box, this is the proof needed as the cast box houses the dry cell DS1 batteries which power up the contact box making the circuit to the arm repeater located on the block shelf. So lever 3 had an arm repeater immediately above it on the block shelf. We know 37 the Leekbrook Up Starter was arm repeated because the John Swift diagram shows it as such, however what we didn't realise until now is that 39 the Up Leek Home which is the other co acting signal in the tunnel cutting before the platform also has an arm repeater. Signal 39 also had a cast battery box fitted and a contact box on its lower arm. This means lever 39 also has an arm indicator on the block shelf. So levers 1, 3, 37, 39 and 40 all have indicators which proves that the shelf must have extended the full length of the lever frame and therefore the frame must have been positioned centrally in the box so that access to each front sliding window was not restricted in the event of an emergency situation arising.

    Hope this clarifies matters.
     
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  12. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Wow. Yes...

    It also shows I’ve made and even bigger booboo with wrongly thinking lever 1 was on the left at LBJ end! :facepalm:
     
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  13. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    eh ? Lever 1 was at the Leekbrook end of the frame... it was the Down Leek Distant. :thumbs:

    Never mind Andy... I'll keep you heading in the right direction. :avatar:
     
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  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Sorry, I just re read your post - I think I got confused when you mentioned Rudyard, then refered back to lever 1.
     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Easy mistake Andy, read the signals left to right on a frame so everything on the left appertains to trains approaching from the left, this then is lever 1 Down Leek Distant, lever 2 Down Leek Home, lever 3 Down Starter for Rudyard. Conversely trains approaching from the opposite direction read right to left thus lever 40 is the Up Leek Distant, lever 39 is the Up Leek Home, lever 38 is the Up Leekbrook Starter and lever 37 is the Up Leekbrook Advance Starter. The advance starter is provided because of the crossover and shunting slip 5 and 8 levers into the Down side yard where a train leaving the yard for Leekbrook would be in advance of 38 Starter signal and therefore need the advance starter 37 to protect it otherwise it would be occupying the forward section. There may well have been instances in the past where Regulation 5 (used only for goods trains) would have come into play, or for a passenger working (section clear junction blocked) where an approaching passenger train from Macclesfield would have to be brought to a stand and stopped 440 yards in rear of the obstruction and would then have to have authorisation to pass 39 signal at danger (329 yards from the box) under a yellow flag in order to proceed into the platform. That move is also covered under Regulation 4 of the Absolute Block Signalman's General Instructions and as Detention of Trains on Running lines as Rule 55 of the little black book for all other train crews.

    You know that one... "if a train is brought to an stand due to a stop signal being at danger the fireman, guard or shunter where provided must after one minute ... blah blah blah... telephones, track circuits or a nice long walk to the signal box. hence the need for track circuit TC 2585 being provided.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  16. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Work this morning focused on finishing the roof and cleaning up a few lines. 6D923524-DCE1-4AC5-9411-F33ADAE79766.jpeg

    Quite pleased with these tiles. Look ok here but have to see how they print out.

    I’ve fitted an internal wall too. 9D9B0770-D0F9-4FAD-A5FF-D2DEC87A05DD.jpeg
    Again, due to the progression of time and lack of drawings, I can’t say exactly where the wall goes..
     
  17. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    The latest on the lever frame work.. not yet complete as it’s a work in progress..

    I've drawn up distant signal and think I must be mad... as the model is drawn up in 4mm scale, the arms here are only .1mm wide! It will only be for the computer... but I like the detail.

    738BC5A1-6F3E-4199-B1FC-D2E0FC36F840.jpeg

    It’s the dial on the right...

    Now if we take a look at the full set up, I’ve still got the phones to do and some other bits to add, but we’re getting there.
    7AED4B01-2E4A-4185-9BF2-4BC266F25722.jpeg
     
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  18. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Looks good Andy, the internal wall is most likely in the right place and all that would have been in the window side would be a sink, urinal and toilet cubicle and the other end side would be a paraffin store with a few internal lamp cases. As a matter of interest all the drains including rainwater and sewage was originally piped into the canal basin for discharge... nice ! Well according to those 1895 plans the pipes ran towards the basin.
     
  19. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Lamp repeater units need combining into one tower and moving into the centre away from the arm indicators.There was only ever two track circuit indicators.
     
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  20. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    I now realise where I went wrong with understanding Paul’s description. Although I was correct in that Signal and lever 1 were to the left of the frame, what I hadn’t twigged to was that lever 2 and 3 were the opposite end of the site on the platform. Hence why I was confused. Having looked again at the track plan from the signal box (which I will post here later) It becomes obvious to what you were referring...

    anyway, moving on.. here is the repeater for the failure of the lamps (so what did they do before electric?)
    C7182080-C1E5-4F96-9BA4-087DDE61691B.jpeg

    I believe for the computer version i need to adjust the yellow aspect so it doesn’t look too illuminated, or were they?

    we have also had a fellow signal friend come up trumps with some internal photos. Well, it’s video actually taken by a late friend of mine, John Burgess. He photographed and filmed the station and the last train. If it wasn’t for John, I don’t think we would have half the info we do photo reference wise. God bless him! He saved the day many a time at the CVR with his great maths on loaves of bread we would need time after time at special events and his legacy lives on with his photos.

    77BA0156-2620-4EC0-8D13-E319EB7102F4.jpeg C8396E84-0A8F-4E01-90FE-0717F176AB60.jpeg D8D4B6E4-8A68-40E3-A8A8-BD3CDE14F374.jpeg

    the full video can be viewed at on YouTube. These shots are about 9min 45.
     
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