Caprotti 5

Discussion in 'Kits, Kit bashes & Scratch builds' started by York Paul, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Well in recent days I've shifted this build on quite a lot and not without setbacks too, the main cause of concern was seal soldering the tender side wrap to the footplate one dark evening, the result of a cold workshop, poor light and me being over eager was a rather not nice looking kinked and un straight lower edge of one tender side wrap. In the Britannia BR1 and the Class 4 BR2 tenders the baseline inward curve is formed with longitudinal assist lines which one bent to radius help manaint a straight bottom edge, however the BR1C tender etches don't have this and the curved area of the side wrap is half etched which can allow distortion to occur when soldering to the footplate base piece. I wasn't able to pre tin the inner side of the curve for strength because fitting the footplate base into position would have placed too much stress on the tank body. Anyway cutting a long story short after some head scratching the seam was opened up as carefully as could be possible within the restricted space for leverage, the side wrap de stressed and straightened and then tack resoldered to a correct alignment. One lesson learnt when building BR high sided tenders using Acorn etches.

    Here is the repaired article.

    [​IMG]


    Progress with the loco on the other hand is being a dream, the chassis is very free running, straight and well balanced so when it gets to motor fitting time and testing on the rolling road I have no worries. The front footplate area is mainly built now and the smokebox wrapper has been seamed together and the smokebox door casting fits snuggly abate currently as a dry fit. Work now turns to fabricating the cab area, the body to chassic holding down boxes and all made up ready for fitting latter and the firebox frame has also been put together ready for the wrappers to be soldered on and dressed.


    [​IMG]
     
    Graham K, Keith M, paul_l and 4 others like this.
  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,858
    Likes Received:
    5,916
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Nice one Paul, it's progressing well.

    Paul
     
    York Paul likes this.
  3. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Paul... I aim to finish the tender this weekend.
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Finally finished the cab which started turning into a bit of a nightmare because aligning all the various angles correctly meant a bit of re adjustment and fiddling tack soldering things in place, anyway job done now bar for sweating on the window bezels which I'll get on this in the workshop in a minute or so. Next step will be to start on the boiler and firebox and when that is done I'll focus back on the frames and Caprotti valve drives.

    I do think the Leek station water tank and porters room makes for a nice vision of things to come.


    [​IMG]
     
    paul_l, Keith M, Graham K and 4 others like this.
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I have taken the decision to go over to DCC with sound from now on as many folks here will already know, they will also know that my knowledge in DCC products is near zilch, anyway I've fitted the firebox in place on the Standard Caprotti 5 loco which means I can now focus attention to fitting the boiler into position. Now as Dundee Paul rightly prophesied more questions are coming :avatar:... the motor gearbox is an ABC helical unit and my plan is for the decoder to be mounted in the boiler with a sugar cube speaker located under the chimney opening with mini pin connectors fitted in the pick up and motor feed loom to prevent stressing the wires in the even the body needs separating from the chassis. I've drilled a 6mm hole to feed the wires through from the firebox front bulkhead into the boiler, the firebox is set level its just a camera angle thing which makes it appear lopsided.

    My question is (remember I'm a DCC novice) will this system be suitable or do DCC folk deal with this sort of thing in another way?


    [​IMG]
     
    paul_l, jakesdad13, Keith M and 2 others like this.
  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now a thing to watch out for if anyone is going to build this kit and this is not a criticism on the part of Scorpio but the holes for the handrail knobs on the boiler (not the smokebox) are set a tad to high, this means when the holes for the handrail knobs are drilled on the firebox wrapper (fireman's side) an undue and obvious kink is created when the handrail wire is fed through. To get round this there are two choices, either drill the firebox handrail knobs higher up the firebox which will then make them visually too close to the mud hole door joints or, kink the two handrail knobs on the boiler downwards to form a smooth alignment. I chose the latter option as opposed to drilling a fresh hole 1mm below the existing one. The picture shows the correct handrail knob position on the firebox side.


    [​IMG]
     
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    So the final question for now is which sound decoder system for O Gauge do folks recommend and why please? The DCC control sytem I'm going with is the NCE Powercab.

    Here in the insides of the barrel I've kept the stalks for the top feed castings in place when soldering as I thought they may well make good fixing points to position the decoder onto.

    The boiler is lopsided as its only loosely dry positioned as yet.


    [​IMG]
     
  8. Graham K

    Graham K Full Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    107
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2020
    Not that I knew what a Caprotti 5 was before reading your thread, and I haven't understood most of the technical stuff, but must say you seem to be making a fine and very neat job of the construction. It must be so very gratifying when you see the end result and can say "I made that" :thumbup:
     
    Andy_Sollis and York Paul like this.
  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Graham for the kind comment, basically this is a model of a BR Standard 4.6.0 tender loco built to power class 5... the then "new image" concept was a development of the final Ivatt version of Stanier's Black 5. BR experimentally fitted a small batch of Standard 5's with the Italian Caprotti valve system which function through a series of rotating drive shafts instead of the more normal Walschaerts rod linkage arrangement. The engine I'm modeling is 73142 which was last allocated to Patricroft before withdrawal in July 1968 and was a regular performer along the North Wales line in the final days, as a child we'd holiday in North Wales during Wakes Week and I saw 73142 a couple of times... once going under the bridge at Talacre and once in Prestatyn station.
     
    jakesdad13, Andy_Sollis and Graham K like this.
  10. Graham K

    Graham K Full Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    107
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2020
    Thanks Paul ... I now know 100% more about the Caprotti 5's than I did 40mins ago! How nice that you've got a real connection to, and memories of the actual loco.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  11. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

    Messages:
    3,904
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Hi Paul,

    I am far from an expert but my (2) sound chips are Zimo supplied by Digitrains I don't have any experience with Lokpilot sound chips but I have a couple of their standard decoders which have been fine.
     
    York Paul likes this.
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Rob from some initial research looking at Coastal DCC it seems the Zimo and Legomanbiffa sound files are the best, so I'll have a chat with them for what they recommend as suitable. Thankfully they do a sound file for a BR Standard 5 which fits the bill for my wants.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  13. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

    Messages:
    3,904
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Hi Paul,

    Mine have Paul Chetter sound files (J94) but they are both in 2 cylinder tanks.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    3,721
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Paul,
    Two wires to pickup as Normal, 2 wires to the motor and 2 wires to the speaker (unless your thinking working head lamps) is all you will need, so 6 wires in total.

    I’d have a look and see if South West Digital has done a sound file for a Cap5?

    the decoders are pretty much swappable between different controllers, so you don’t need to worry much about that. What you need to look for is the output ohms on the decoder. Some older ones use 100ohm speakers, sugar cubes are only 8ohm.

    as i found through error.!
     
    jakesdad13, Rob Pulham and York Paul like this.
  15. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,458
    Likes Received:
    2,910
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Hi Paul.
    I think you'll find that Legomanbiffo uses ESU decoders, not sure what Coastal DCC uses. My personal preference is for Zimo which Digitrains uses, their sound files are by Paul Chetter I believe, and I normally use Zimo with sound files by YouChoos. Several suppliers (including YouChoos) have websites where you can listen to the sound files, so if possible, I recommend having a listen first. It would be great if all the suppliers could offer your choice of sound file downloaded onto your brand choice of decoder, but I imagine it'll be a case of which brand they have the concession for and they'll be mutually exclusive. The results of your loco stall current tests may narrow your decoder choice, so make sure you do that before buying one.
    Keith.
     
    Andy_Sollis and York Paul like this.
  16. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Boiler, smokebox and firebox all joined together and lining up properly on the chassis, next job is to start the plumbing and finish the Caprotti drives.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,536
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Looking good mate :tophat::tophat:

    Cheers, Pete.
     
  18. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

    Messages:
    3,904
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Looking very nice, I bet it's a devil to keep that clean and shiney.

    I have just worked out what it is that I don't like about the BR standards, it's the flat sloping front to the footplate. I mush prefer the curved fronts and elegant sweeping footplates of Gresley/Ivatt designs But then most of the pre group and grouping designs from the big four (with the obvious exception of the Southern Q1) had nice curves front and back even if they had flat footplates in between.
     
    jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  19. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,858
    Likes Received:
    5,916
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Hi Paul

    Decoder choice will be governed by the current draw of the motor.
    A good runin should also reduce the current draw, then you will need to carry out a stall test.
    Abusing a cheapo decoder isn't so upsetting if you blow it, but a £100 sound decoder will be quite upsetting.
    As Andy has said - basic setup to the decoder is Red / Black from the track, Orange / Grey to the motor, then two wires for the speaker(s), and possibly two wires for a stay alive. Not forgetting any additional accessories you may want, firebox flicker, cab lighting, front and rear lamps, smoke generator.

    On the HR Passenger tank I am using this setup


    A piece of veroboard, in this case 6 strips wide, although I'm only using the central 4.
    The middle two are the track feeds, the outer ones are for the motor. The two pin plug connects to the bogie pickups to allow me to easily disconnect the bogie, the driver pickups will be soldered directly to the center strips (but could be wired to another plug if required. The four pin plug goes to the decoder track feeds and motor returns, or for DC usage the motor and track feeds will be looped together, so I can run the loco in on DC before fitting the decoder.
    I could replace the sockets with screw terminals.

    By the way, the loco is looking really good.

    Paul
     
    York Paul and Andy_Sollis like this.
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks for the nice comment Paul... been a tad busy with work of late so just a bit behind with things here, oh the NCE PowerCab kit arrived last week so I'm chuffed with that.

    So panning through Brian Stevenson's BR Standard Steam Locomotives I noticed that the Caprotti 5 builds had an additional steam feed pipe running from under the footplate to the steam collecting dome, this feature was only applied to 73125-73154 and not the main fleet fitted with Walschaerts valve arrangement, the pipe involved making a cover plate too as these bits were not included in the kit. Ooh more scratch making as I've not long finished scratch building all the sanding gear. Anyway here is the piece in question... this little blighter took most of the late afternoon to form from a lamination of four layers of 18thou scrap brass etch.

    [​IMG]


    And here it is affixed to the loco, the cover was glued into position as I've noticed the recent batch of whitemetal castings seem to vanish into thin air the second even a low temp iron goes anywhere near them. The pipe has been soldered from underneath the footplate.


    [​IMG]
     
    paul_l, Steve Fay, Keith M and 3 others like this.

Share This Page