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Electrofrog Crossover

Discussion in 'How this forum works - FAQ' started by Wombat, Jan 1, 2025.

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  1. Jan 1, 2025 #1
    Wombat

    Wombat Sir Combat Full Member

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    G'day All,

    Hope your all keeping well, I'm currently having an issue with a short occuring on my layout.

    I've got 2 points setup as below
    Cross over 1.jpg

    I believe the issue is relating to the last point in the cross over (near the blue arrow)
    Cross over 1 direction.jpg
    When the loco crosses the insulated track section into the 2nd point, the short occurs, I've even added more rail insluators thinking maybe i needed more? the loco can pass straight through the switch with no issue, its crossing that is tripping the circuit breaker in the controller.
    20250101_170245.jpg
    Currently using a NCE Switch 8 Mk2, NCE Powercab, tourtise motors.

    Been scratching my head over this for most of the day, any help would be great.

    Cheers,

    Wombat.

    EDIT - Pretty sure I've posted this in the wrong spot!!
     
  2. Jan 1, 2025 #2
    gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Wombat,
    Is it possible that the track section, shown in the red circle below, is moving ever so slightly, under the weight of the loco, enough to make a wheel lift and possibly spark a short.?
    The rail appears to be unsupported in this section and may be able to flex slightly........:scratchchin:

    20250101_170245.jpg

    That`s all that comes to mind from me
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  3. Jan 1, 2025 #3
    Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    Wombat. do locos move through all other crossovers/ turnouts OK? I assume all power feed wires are matched that is - all rails on the same side, are connected to the same bus wire ( again assuming DCC) ?
     
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  4. Jan 1, 2025 #4
    Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Hi Wombat.

    Presumeably you are testing with DCC power applied.

    When developing a new build I test the track wiring with simple DC before powering with DCC so that I can check the polarity of all rails with a basic multi-meter without the complexity of DCC being involved.

    I suggest that you test purely with DC as it will easily alert you to an unexpected issue.

    Jim :)
     
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  5. Jan 2, 2025 #5
    Wombat

    Wombat Sir Combat Full Member

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    Morning All,

    Gormo - I checked, and that's not what I'm seeing, I put a suppport under the track to ensure this isn't the issue and am still getting shorts.

    Jim - I'll have to go and dig one up and see if i can find my mulit-meter (still in a box somewhere haha!)

    Sol/All - I've swapped out the smaller 70 Class for this C36 to elimnate any potential issue with the loco (70 has a keep alive fitted, 36 is only just a DCC chip) and I've done some further testing.

    Red/Black - Track power.

    Arrow - direction of travel.
    upload_2025-1-2_11-7-3.png

    Each of these electro frogs have had a common wire attached to the port 4 on the switch motor with +/- going into ports 2/3 respectitly, I've even tried swapping the polarity on the 2nd point to see if it would rectifiy the issue with no joy.

    each point has had the wires removed at the yellow circle and a green wire added to the frog, Red and Black droppers added to the lined area's.
    upload_2025-1-2_11-10-17.png

    Next step I'm considering is swapping the point out for another one Ive got ready for another section of track.

    Cheers,

    Wombat.
     
  6. Jan 2, 2025 #6
    Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    I agree with Jim, use a multimeter but have you tried swaping tortoise wires 2 & 3 And we assume both turnouts are operated at the same time ?
     
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  7. Jan 2, 2025 #7
    Wombat

    Wombat Sir Combat Full Member

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    Yeah, I've swapped the wires in 2 & 3 on the "problem point" and still get no result.

    Both motors are operated at the same time by the MK2 Switch8 kit.

    upload_2025-1-2_11-32-39.png

    going to go hunting for my DCC controller and multi-meter.

    Cheers,

    Wombat
     
  8. Jan 2, 2025 #8
    Wombat

    Wombat Sir Combat Full Member

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    Okay so found my multi meter (had to google to remember how to use it haha!!) and I think I found the problem, I'm just not sure how to fix it.
    upload_2025-1-2_12-30-56.png

    I connected up a DC power supply to the track power and manually moved the points, when the points where set to allow only straight through traffic, the 'problem switch' (Green) is powering the frog and not! the straight through and when I throw the points it then moves power to the straight through!

    I'm not sure how this has happened given the wireing is mirrored to the switch its forming the crossover with!
     

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  9. Jan 2, 2025 #9
    Wombat

    Wombat Sir Combat Full Member

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    Swapped the +/- on the motor on the 'problem switch' seems to have fixed it now.
     
  10. Jan 2, 2025 #10
    Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    The wiring of Tortoise terminals 2-3 all depends on how they are mounted in relation to the direction of the turnout tie-bar.
     
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  11. Jan 2, 2025 #11
    Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Glad to hear it, another tee-shirt to add to the collection :thumbs:

    Jim :)
     
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  12. Jan 23, 2025 at 10:08 AM #12
    David Mitchell-Todd

    David Mitchell-Todd Full Member

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    I had the same problem on Cobalt iP Digital point motors. One set of points always causing a short. I 'solved' the problem by disconnecting the supply to the frog. This didn't affect performance as my locos have keep alive on them. However, I later discovered I just needed to swop the +/- to the motor as you did.
     

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