Fiddle yard spacing and foam underlay

Discussion in 'Baseboards' started by Dave C, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Dave C

    Dave C Full Member

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    The rebuild of Setforth Junction is allowing me to increase the number of fiddle yard tracks. Previously I used 50mm centres (00) which seemed to work well. Has anyone gone any lower than that, and any snags other than lifting anything off of course?
    And a new board will be required for it. I used 2mm cork before over 9mm pky, but I've got dozens of square metres of laminate flooring foam underlay left over from DIY projects. Thought of using that for the fiddle yard as it may transmit less noise than the cork. Anyone got any experience or comments on its use?
     
  2. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Dave,
    I have gone down under 50mm for one of my fiddle yards, however it is a sliding yard, which removes any issues with points. The track centers are 40mm and still allow enough clearance for trains to pass without touching.
    As you can see, I have seven roads in the yard, which gives six for storage and one as a loco release road.

    1224_010853_180000001.jpg

    On a set up like this, it is essential to have enough straight track leading up to the start of the yard, to avoid coaches swinging out and clipping stationary stock.
    If you intend to use points for your yard, you may have problems going under 50mm unless you modify the points by trimming some off the curved sections. A gradual transition curve out from the point will usually result in a parallel track at 50mm centers........so possibly some serious mods there. Also you will need that sufficient straight length leading into the storage roads to avoid collisions.
    I have used carpet underlay ( 8mm thick ) on the main lines and main line fiddle yard.

    1224_100437_290000003.jpg

    It certainly reduces the noise significantly to the point where a friend of mine commented that my trains ran quietly. The underlay removes the droning, drumming sound that usually transmits through the baseboard and it`s been down now for about nine years.
    The underlay was old when I put it down and I was told at the time by a member of another forum that it would not last......:scratchchin:.......well that`s twice now he was wrong in his assessments of my methods.........it`s still there and works fine.:thumbs:
    So in a nutshell Dave........the underlay is fine.......but if you are using points in your fiddle yard, I would stay with 50mm centers.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  3. Dave C

    Dave C Full Member

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  4. Dave C

    Dave C Full Member

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    Thanks Gormo. I'm reassured.:tophat: The new fiddle yard will boost track capacity by 66%, and from the mock ups I'm doing I will get extra length too. There are points leading in but on the curves at either end. Dropping the spacing to 45mm would only give 1 extra track anyway.
    And the underlay will work - same thickness as the cork. Also contemplating glueing it down rather than pins, but I always leave new trackwork "loose" with only a few pins not driven home fully in case I come up with a better idea after a few weeks of running.
    Next step is to order the piece of 9mm ply:thumbup:
     
  5. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes I have points on the curve at one end.......it`s a space saving method.
    My track is glued to the underlay which in turn is glued to the baseboard top. When I first glued it in place ,the track was pinned to maintain the alignment, especially on curves, however once the glue had set, the pins were removed.
    There is a school of thought out there that suggests that having the track pinned on foam underlay will still produce undesirable sound. I have not found this to be the case. I think the underlay glued to the baseboard top dampens / muffles the sound transmission and it also has the same affect on the pins because they are encased in underlay and cannot resonate.
    Good luck with it all........:thumbs:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  6. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Hello All,

    1 / 50mm spacing ( in OO / HO 16.5mm ) - you also need to consider whether you intend to handle your stock on any part of the Fiddle Yard, or whether you will have one access track for that purpose.

    As Gormo has illustrated, 40 mm is feasible on a sliding yard arrangement , however, Gormo uses Cassettes elsewhere on his layout, so handling stock is thereby minimised .

    Gormo's cassette design is excellent, and this is covered elsewhere on this site.

    2 / the use of carpet foam underlay, though softer and thicker than closed cell foam sheets, should have a long life, bearing in mind that it is designed to be a layer between your floor ( timber / chipboard / concrete ) and your carpet, and carpet, even in offices, lasts 20+ years.

    So if you are having new carpet installed , then new underlay is usually required, and there is usually left overs, which in most cases should be sufficient for most home layouts ( Rev. Edward Beale's may be an exception here, but then again, most of us do not have access to a 50 square plus spare 2nd floor in which to build a model railway ! ).

    3 / One common method of baseboard construction is to use plywood sheets with nominal 2" x 1" pine framing ( 50mm x 25mm for you modernists ! ), which is a lot easier than the previously used chipboard, which is a much denser, and heavy, composition board.

    Bunnings currently sells suitable plywood in nominal 3' x 2' / 910mm x 610mm, and 4' x 2' / 1200mm x 610mm; both of these sizes can, when framed up, be moved by one person, though 1' / 305mm width is a lot easier. ( Bunnings will cut the sheet in half for you ).

    By building a series of modules, you can, depending on location, reasonably easily move a single module to work on outside of your layout location. This is an important consideration if your layout resides inside your home. Modelling dirt can get everywhere, and may be difficult to remove from furniture and carpet.

    4 / Bunnings also sells carpet underlay double sided tape, which can be used to attach the cork floor tiles ( also from Bunnings ! ) to the plywood top.
    As Dale C of Setforth Jcn has indicated above, pinning the track down, and train running the pinned track formation allows you to make adjustments that running may indicate are required.

    Again, double sided carpet tape has a long life, so lifting of cork tiles whist in use is unlikely, and removing cork tiles for reuse is also still possible, and with minimal damage compared to PVA glued cork tiles. ( PVA is a great glue, especially the indoor, water based version, but it is intended to be a permanent glued joint. )

    5 / As I have said previously, very thin carpet glue, as once sold by Rogue Manufacturing, and still obtainable, as carpet glue, from Bunnings ( which you will then need to decant and thin down with water ) will hold both track and ballast, to either cork or carpet foam, or closed cell foam ( Clarke Rubber sell it at a per metre cost, of the roll ) will hold both track and ballast , and also allow for future removal with minimal damage.

    6 / I have no connection with Bunnings, other than it is the closest hardware store to where I live.

    Best wishes and regards to all,

    Echidna
     
  7. Dave C

    Dave C Full Member

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    I should have no need to handle anything in the fiddle yard, and the previous one did have a spacing of 50mm. And actually even if reduced it by 5mm I would only gain 1 more track so I'll stick with 50mm.
    The rest of the layout is 9mm ply on a 2 x 1" bracing so I've ordered the cut sheet this evening.
    I've trialled the foam underlay on a piece of contiboard and it seemed to work well albeit nothing fixed, so once the fiddle yard board is up I'm going to try 1 track fixed down first and listen to the results before doing any more, and hopefully post some sound recordings.
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.

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