Hello Tech Support?

Discussion in 'Non Sound Decoders' started by StevePower, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    So I've pulled apart the Q1 I bought on Ebay a few months ago, cleaned all the oil out of it, removed the carpet and monkey fur, removed all the wires and have replaced them. So far so good.


    When I put it on a test track, with a decoder plugged in, it either:
    1. Sits there and won't read the decoder.
    2. Will read the decoder but each time comes up with a different manufacturer and / or decoder version.
    3. Just runs by itself without any motion being called for by the handset (which means it is just bypassing the decoder and thinks it is DC.)
    4. Gives a Short Circuit Detected message

    It seems very strange and I have no idea where to start with this one. I've checked and rechecked the wiring. If there was a dead short it would show straight away on the NCE handset.


    There are only four wires at play here.

    1 from the left wheels, 1 from the right wheels via the chassis, 1 to the left pole of the motor and 1 to the right.


    I am stuffed if I can work it out and at the moment pulling it apart again and redoing it seems like the next step.
    I'm keen to hear anyone's thoughts.
    Cheers Steve.
    (think I'll go back to model aeroplanes)
     
  2. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

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    We've all been there Steve, have you got a different decoder you can test to rule out a decoder malfunction??
     
  3. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    Ron wrote:
    Yes I have used two different decoders with similar results.
     
  4. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Very weird. Never heard of anything quite like it. Maybe SMR Chris could be your salvation here.
     
  5. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    On second thoughts, you mentioned that you got one of your track pick up s via the chassis. Do you not have to isolate the chassis and run a feed direct Dom the wheels. :scratchchin:

    This sounds like a split chassis loco. I think when you go to chip these, the chassis has got to be isolated. May be wrong. Wait for the Calvary to come.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Steve

    As Ron Says, try another decoder, also try connecting directly to the red and black wires from the track bus - bypassing the track pickups and chassis wiring, as your problem may be caused by intermitant connections.

    Paul
     
  7. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

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    That sounds possible, had to put tape between the motor and the chassis when I wired up a switcher??
     
  8. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Steve suspect by the symptoms that one side of the motor has track power getting to it
    check for an errant bit of solder bridging across a pin or the like.
    from the rewire

    Also check the the wires between loco and tender I've had locos arrive with these melted and and crossing track power direct to the adjacent motor supply wire.

    Best of luck
     
  9. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I've a couple of Hornby Q1's, and although I've had no problems with them, as you'll probably know, Hornby has had a number of QC problems with wrongly wired decoder sockets, shorted pins, pin1 wrongly marked etc. If you still have the decoder plugged rather than wired in, I'd start by cutting off the decoder plug and getting rid of the Hornby socket and wiring. Then you need to check for any short circuits or continuity (hope you have a multimeter!) between the wheels/pickups. If that's ok, then I'm guessing you tried the loco on DC first, so if it ran ok on DC, and you've tried 2 different decoders with similar results, then it must be a dodgy Hornby wiring issue, so best to get rid of all the wiring and plug, wiring the decoder in directly. Let us know how you get on Steve.
    Keith.
     
  10. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Steve,

    Don`t know if this may help???

    http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32625

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  11. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    Thank you for all of the replies. I had a really good look at it again last night before bed and did the following.
    1. Isolated the body from the right rail pickups by running a wire from the brass pickup strip directly to the 8 pin socket.
    2. I removed the two small metal collars that sit in the plastic base making it impossible for there to be any contact with the metal chassis.
    3. Cleaned the wheels with 1000 grade wet and dry sandpaper and alcohol to ensure good contact Placed the loco on the test track with an old decoder to check the modified wiring
    4. Instantly the motor started running without the decoder being called up by the handset.

    To me this can only mean that the decoders are being completely bypassed and the loco is behaving as if it were DC.
    I suspect as mentioned by Kim, Chris and others that there is a solder bridge somwhere on that decoder socket and it will be removed within the hour.
    I will wire it for DC and proceed from there.

    Attached files [​IMG]
     
  12. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    Brass collets removed.

    Attached files [​IMG]
     
  13. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    The small locating lug you can see between axles 1 and two is now removed as it was the means for conducting track power via the brass pickups to the chassis.
    Hornby would have been much better to just have a wire running up like the the left side has, but hey what would I know.
    Fine for DC but not for DCC. Just another way that the quality control lapsed and the cost cutting increased!

    Attached files [​IMG]
     
  14. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    gormo wrote:
    Gormo, what a great thread. Exactly what I was after!
    Thanks for the link!
     
  15. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    Success!
    Loco pulled apart again.
    A new plug wired in and a Hattons decoder connected.
    Another good wheel cleaning with the track rubber and then onto the programming track.
    No problems reading or writing a new address.
    On the rolling road it runs ok, but just stalls from time to time.
    I'm thinking that it won't be a great runner but i will check it next week when i have a day off.

    Again thanks for everyones help and ideas.

    Cheers Steve
     
  16. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    and the moral of this story is ?.......
     
  17. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    ......and the moral of the story is......Don't buy Hornby unless no-one else makes the loco you want in RTR or kit form!:avatar::avatar::avatar:

    Keith.
     
  18. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    The moral of the story is NEVER buy secondhand locos on eBay from sellers who are "Just selling it for an old friend" and "Don't really know much about it" and " It's missing one small part".
    When in reality the loco doesn't run because it keeps shorting out and blowing decoders and has so much damage to it from incompetent idiots with soldering irons that it should just go in the bin.

    That is the moral of the story.
    Book closed.
     
  19. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Unfortunately Steve,

    This is sometimes the case.........but !!!!....everything is fixable.....sometimes it`s best to walk away from it for a while and then possibly the penny will drop and you`ll have that Eureka moment and you`re away with a nice running loco.

    There is always an answer and if the loco is not yet running right, then you don`t have the final answer yet.....but you`ll get there.:thumbs:

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  20. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

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    FOR SALE
    A beautiful Hornby Q1 locomotive in excellent condition and good running order.
    This recently refurbished model is truly a collectors item.
    The electrical wiring has all been replaced with a high quality ultra fine copper wiring and is guaranteed to produce minimal resistance so as to maximize current flow to the newly installed Digital Decoder.
    The Digital Decoder selected has been done so as ensure ultra quiet running with virtually no electrical noise at all.
    The locomotive has been carefully weathered with a multi layered system to produce the finest effect available on the market today.
    This once in a lifetime opportunity is only available to one lucky collector. Models like these are often sought after but rarely seen on the market so do not delay in making contact with the vendor to pass on your purchase offer.

    For those of you struggling to understand or comprehend what I have typed above, here is a plain english version.

    I've got a third hand Q1 loco I bought on eBay that I'm trying to flog. It runs like a dog missing three legs. You would have to be blind, stupid or insanely rich to buy it. I've rewired it with cheap thin single strand wire from China. It's as thin as your hair to be honest and would struggle to conduct electricity even if you jammed it into a powerpoint. The decoder is a crappy old one I had laying about and doesn't make any noise because it's not a sound chip. I've weathered the loco with so many layers of paint and dirt just in attempt to hide all the broken and burnt bits of plastic on it. It's a rare opportunity to buy it because quite frankly if I do sell it to some sucker I expect eBay to ban me for life for false advertising. So do I have any bidders? Anyone? Hello?...........
     

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