Hornby 9F Replacement Motor

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by gormo, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,

    My old 1990`s vintage Hornby 9F ....Evening Star....has just recently decided it didn`t want to play anymore. I opened it up and found one of the motor brushes had worn into a wedge shape.....that`s a little bit weird..???.....so I managed to get some new brushes and also a replacement motor cover.

    After several attempts and patience being tested, I could not get the bloomin` thing to work. Further checking revealed one of the armature wires had broken away, only giving me two out of three actually working. Therefore it was impossible for the motor to rotate.

    Time to get rid of the loco or take the plunge and try retro-fitting a replacement motor.

    Any equipment I dispose of ...eg. computers, cd players, cassette players.etc. etc. in other words anything with little screws, motors, gears, belts, pulleys....I remove them for future projects before disposing of the item. Therefore I have a good supply of small motors.

    One such motor came from some equipment and I can`t remember what.?? The motor is labelled as 5.9 volts which is probably ample as it is rare to put a full 12 volts through any of my locos. If necessary, diodes can be used to drop the input voltage, so the voltage doesn`t really concern me greatly.

    For the purposes of this article we`ll call the motor a CD motor. Below you can see some size comparison photographs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The motor has a flared bearing housing which is a larger diameter than the bearing housing for the Ringfield, so the Ringfield housing will need to be drilled out to allow this motor to sit flush inside the housing.

    [​IMG]

    The pic below also shows where two holes were drilled to allow fitting of screws to secure the motor.

    [​IMG]

    The motor fits comfortably in the housing, however because it is deeper that the Ringfield the floating middle tender wheel will need to be adapted and relocated.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    On the drive side, the original pinion has been replaced with a nylon version that suits the new motor shaft. There is a difference in shaft sizes between the two motors, so having an alternative pinion was handy.

    [​IMG]

    To gain clearance and make the floating wheels fit, I removed the flange and decreased it`s thickness. The stub axle which normally fitted through the old motor housing was reversed and glued to the chassis instead. This wheel now sits just slightly off the rail and is purely cosmetic and always was.

    [​IMG]

    The floating wheel on the drive side had it`s flange removed as well. These wheels when they have had a lot of use get too much play in them and can foul on check rails. Removing the flange eliminates the problem.

    [​IMG]

    Putting it back together. New electrical plugs fitted to slot into the original. Ballast weights refitted.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    A bit of electrical tape to protect the electrics.

    [​IMG]

    And put the lid back on. I also replaced the traction tyres with some new Bullfrog Snot.

    [​IMG]

    Now for the moment of truth....put it on the track and see if it works. I know it works on the bench, because I`ve had it running, but on the track could be a different kettle of fish.

    So below is a video showing the results.

    Hornby 9F Test Run



    Well folks, I think I`ll have to take the lid off and lubricate the gears a bit more. The long running session on the bench to allow the Bullfrog Snot to cure has obviously taken it`s toll. However I am quite happy with the result. Another loco saved from the breakers yard.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  2. Ron

    Ron Full Member

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    Well done Gormo, an excellent replacement and a crafty bit of engineering! :tophat:
     
  3. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice conversion Gormo
    I used one of these Motors in place of an old Lima ring field in a C38 with similar results.
    Also the gear mesh has to be just right, too tight and it was noisy too loose and it would skip teeth due to the style of gear and the years of ware took a few adjustments, once the happy median of gear mesh was found and sorted it has been a really good performer.

    Your mesh of the motor gear to the first idlers, in the photos may be a tiny bit tight give it a little free play and see if the gear noise is reduced.:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  4. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I've done several similar replacements using what I understand is the CD drawer drive motor supplied by a guy in Finland who sells on Ebay UK. Don't think he supplies to Oz though.
    Keith.
     
  5. Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

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    While not an advocate of simply replacing ring field motors in general,( I can get them running really sweetly, including Tyco ones, but I specialise in Lima motors), there are times when replacement is the best option. I have a Flying Scotsman with a burnt out armature (not by me, a cheap 2nd hand purchase), which I may employ this method to save it from the breaker's yard.
    If you are looking for a replacement motor and you are not as organised as Gormo with a stock of motors lying around, here is a replacement source in Australia that I use a lot, mainly for my audio work.
    https://www.wagneronline.com.au/motor-dvd-cd/dvd-cd-parts/service-repair-parts/pl/
    Digging around there are often VCR motors still around in the catalogue. Avoid cassette motors in general as most in this section are uni-directional and highly regulated in speed as well as being too physically deep, making them totally useless as a train engine.
    My issue though is finding the right pinion gear for the shaft of the motor, obviously the original is out due to the shaft size. I've come across these CD motor conversions before but they often suffer in a few years as the gear is jammed on the motor shaft and splits after a while. Also have to get the outside diameter right and the number of teeth right.
    Cheers
    Tony
     
  6. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    Well done Gormo..
     
  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks for all the tips guys..:thumbs:

    Chris the pinion is free moving but it was modified so as not to be too tight a fit. It has been filed and turned down a smidgen!!!.....I will take another look at it based on your advice plus I`ll lubricate first and see if that tones it down. This loco always had a noisy drive train but it`s definitely noisier now.

    The pinion is a nice fit over the shaft so it won`t split, however I have seen another technique using the original pinion. It has to be placed accurately and centered over the end of the shaft and a tiny drop of Superglue is placed on the end of the shaft and allowed to fill the gap between pinion and shaft.

    The method works by, in effect, creating a sleeve, but setting it up properly must be crucial.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  8. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Very interesting watching that Gormo. A great skill to be able to do that. Top drawer stuff. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  9. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Ron & Toto,

    Well I tried the lubricant to no avail, so I took on board what Chris was saying and had a long, hard close look at the pinion meshing with the gears. It`s not what I would call tight but there was barely any daylight between tooth and groove on close inspection.

    I stripped the motor down to pinion only, started it spinning at high speed and shaved a bit off the pinion using some wet & dry paper. Then cleaned up the grooves between the teeth with a small file and tried it again. There was some improvement and the whole gear train was becoming more free moving.

    I went through this process 3 times and I`m now at the point where I`m reluctant to push it any further. The whole assembly is running much quieter now and slow speed running is extremely good. The loco is about the same noise level or better than the original and slow speed running is far superior to the original.

    So thanks for the tip Chris...you were absolutely correct......:thumbs:

    I`ll put up a video later on.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  10. Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

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    Just on the meshing of the gears, the old Lima Modeltorque motor conversion had a plate with 2 holes mounted to fit the original screw holes for the motor. Not a thing that is possible with the Hornby motor due to space constraints. But these had one hole that was slotted in such a way as you could adjust the position of the motor with relation to the idler gears. Problem was as these screws were self tappers into plastic they would invariably come loose and go out of adjustment. Once dialled in, your method Gormo, should outlast the motor.
    One thing about those motors, they sometimes get used in CD players as drawer motors or cassette decks as reel motors. This gives them a life of either protracted low speed running or short sharp movement. This can take their toll on these motors, caking up the commutators. A trick in the audio repair game is to run them on a constant voltage for a while, near or at its rated voltage, this cleans it up somewhat.
    Cheers
    Tony
     
  11. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Ok thanks Tony,

    That`s good to know.....you have some good knowledge of this subject.

    My internet has been down for about 6 hours and I`m currently uploading a second video showing the 9F running after adjustments.

    As soon as it`s done I`ll load it onto the forum.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo

    Ok ...done it......here we go!!!

    Tweaking the 9F



    http://www.click:tophat:again......Gormo
     
  12. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    That running nice Gormo.
    Good to see new life in an old loco again
    That's why I did my old Lima 38 as it would be a shame to see them resigned to the shelf for display only, it's good to see the 9F pounding the rails :thumbs:

    Almost a Pines Express when on the coaches :tophat:

    Edit
    PS I rewatched the first video and it is a lot quieter and looks smoother now than in the first video :thumbs:
     
  13. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Chris,

    And thanks for the info....:thumbs:

    Yes I used the wet & dry as I mentioned earlier, to turn down the pinion. Had to clean up in between the teeth with a file but by the third go at it, the gears were showing little resistance and all was moving quite freely.....so time to let it go I felt and accept what had been gained.

    I should be able to get some more life out of the old girl now...:thumbup:

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     

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