Rails / Dapol D1

Discussion in 'How this forum works - FAQ' started by Eve, Jul 18, 2023.

  1. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi, I've just tried to add a Zimo sound decoder to my new D1...........unfortunately the coupling between tender and engine is not currently connecting the white sound wire from the loco PCB to the tender. So no sound !!! The blue wire is fine, and the white wire connects as far as the male (loco) half of the coupling. The connections from the coupling to the speaker are also good, so the problem is within the coupling itself where contacts are not doing what they should be!

    Maybe I've just gotten an odd one off bad coupling?? Anyway living in Ireland makes returning items not as easy as when living in the UK, so I'll do something about the connection......and post once I've cured the problem.

    The coupling is a kinetic type - one that has a cam action that will extend the distance when on curved track. Whilst I do like the idea, I feel that it could be better executed, the snap in connection when pushed together is an old idea that I first found on an old 00 gauge Hawksworth 10xx County, and that just pulled apart with embarrassing monotony whilst running with any sizeable train.

    Perhaps the Bachmann N class coupling would be better with a dedicated electrical plug and socket connection........

    Now having said all that, the model has exquisite detailing, and even if I have to change the coupling for a totally different type with plug and socket electrical connections I'll do that if necessary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Eve

    Some photo's would be nice / helpful.

    Which decoder are you using ?

    Does the sound work if you bypass the coupling ?

    If the tender and engine are permanently coupled then a couple of fixed fine silicin wires may be a better option (very flexible) and will look like hoses.

    Paul
     
  3. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Paul,

    I'm using a Zimo MS 580 (Next 18), with a Rail Exclusive Baby Boomer (26x20x8mm 8ohm 1W) speaker, or hope to use this speaker eventually!. As a temporary measure I've used an ESU sugar cube on the underside of the pullout / push in PCB (directly underneath the decoder). Yes, if I bypass the tender connector the Baby Boomer does work. But the decoder can only handle an 8 ohm speaker at 1 watt, so it's an either or situation.

    I've relented a bit after calming down......., and ordered a couple of tender connectors from DCC Supplies, so I'll give them a go before the threatened surgery is carried out.
    Apparently I've been told by a "well informed source" that the loco to tender coupling connector problems have "been seen a number of times" and "even worse with pick-ups and speaker wiring reversed" which would instantly kill any sound decoder.

    Anyway here's a couple of photos, the second of which shows the tender half of the connector opened up to show the internal contacts before I tried to bend them into shape, which didn't work anyway.There is however continuity between the contacts and the speaker wires, which is most frustrating.

    I'd say that there's extremely poor quality control at Dapol's manufacturer, it couldn't have been tested.

    If I still lived in England I'd have returned it, but I'm afraid of it getting lost in the post at customs depts., which has happened to me from time to time.

    Anyway here's something positive to say about the model, unlike other Dapol 00 models that I and friends have, this model is not at all sluggish, in fact it moves like a scalded cat at speed step 28 (NCE 5 amp Power Pro @ 15v) which would put a Scaletric car to shame!, speed steps 16 to 18 are ample.

    IMG_6325.jpeg
    IMG_6409.jpeg
     
  4. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Eve

    Model looks very nice, and the coupling looks erm ...... fiddley.

    From the comments I think I'd bell out the wire connections, and even double up the power connectors and fit a seperate connector for the speaker.

    Also sounds like a wee visit to JMRI Decoder Pro to set the speed map - set max speed to the current value that is at step 18, and remap the speed steps over the full 28/127 range.
    I have the same NCE 5A Power Pro system, plus a PowerCab, great for use on the program track, as it better supports sound chips on the program track.

    Fingers crossed

    Paul
     
  5. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Hi Paul,

    I also have a Power Cab, that I use on a separate programming board, it's also got a Zimo MXULFa and an ESU LokProgrammer. I can also connect my laptop to it for Decoder Pro. Of course when it's not being used the Power Cab doubles up as another Pro Cab on my layout. I just love NCE stuff.

    The coupling would be great if it worked! Anyway I'll wait until the new couplings arrive and persevere with the standard set up. If that doesn't't work then I'll have to do major surgery. I really don't mind the excessive speed, I just don't use it.

    IMG_4498.jpeg
     
  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Nice .....

    Yep an NCE fanboy as well, I love how nothing is redundant.

    Paul
     
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  7. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Hello All, by all means try the replacement parts, but I think that Paul's comment of using a proper plug & socket arrangement, with extra pick ups if possible, is probably the way to go.

    To some extent, I can understand manufacturers trying to achieve a seperate engine & tender with an electrical connection via the engine-tender coupling, but past experience seems to indicate that such arrangements are not electrically & mechanically reliable over the long term. Hornby's twin finger depressed brass connection being a case in point.

    The D1 is lovely by the way ! Regards, Echidna
     
  8. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Well, you don't just have to take my word or the DCC decoder suppliers word for it, see the photo. The one on the left is the new connector, and the one on the right the connector from my tender that doesn't work on one out of three connections........(well Meatloaf sang that 3 three out of 4 aint bad, oh no sorry, it was 2 out of 3!).

    Anyway long wires to the speaker and short to the pick-ups should be the correct position. On the loco the blue and white wires go to the speaker connections, it's deplorable that the same colour wires aren't used in the tender.......

    Cheers

    Eve

    IMG_6427.jpg
     
  9. Eve

    Eve Full Member

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    Happy to add that the loco now works as it should have done in the first place, I removed the temporarily fitted sugar cube from the Loco and wired up the Rail Express baby boomer speaker, and wow, what a difference truly excellent sound now.
     
  10. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Eve,
    Please check your INBOX for a personal message.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  11. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks to All for your comments,

    However I am one to persevere where I can before surgery!

    Now yesterday I received two tender half coupling replacemets from DCC Supplies, now admittedly they were for a D class rather than a D1, but both had the same tender in real life, so it's reasonable to expect that Dapol have used the same tender and connections.

    The DCC sound decoder supplier that I ordered from, told me that some of the D class tender connector, had the speaker wires connected to track pick-ups and vice versa. It's a good job that I checked for continuity between loco PCB and wires exited from the new connector before just fitting it!!!! The wires were exactly the same as I was advised by my decoder supplier. Now there aren't too many suppliers of Zimo sounds for a D class, so I'll leave you all to work out who it was, clue is though that they don't do much more than Zimo decoders and associated eqt..

    The other new connector didn't seem to connect at all on either speaker wire or pick-up wires.

    Perhaps, just perhaps, Dapol have had some D class and D1 class locos with the loco side of the connector reversed??? Hmmm unlikely in my opinion, but then it maybe so. BUT on my loco it isn't, I checked for continuity between wheels and loco connector.

    I feel that I should copy this text and forward to both Dapol and DCC Supplies as I'm now £20 plus postage to Ireland worse off after purchasing the model.

    It'd be good if Dapol would reply to this thread without the obvious statement that I should have returned it to Rails of Sheffield or Dapol, which as I stated earlier can result in non-deliveries and items being lost in customs clearance areas, this has happened to me two or three times recently.

    Well I'll be off now to swop the wiring over and fit the new connector - the one that works - in a fashion anyway!:mad::headbanger::(

    Cheers,

    Eve
     
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  12. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    It's good to hear that it now works, and you are well impressed with the sound quality, pity it didn't work first time.

    The connector looks a bit fiddly, and as if it's wired manually - glad it's not my job.

    Think I'll stick with J connectors or 0.1" pin connectors.

    Paul
     

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