Wallace Creek

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by class48nswfan, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    3,883
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    You can't kill a Lima model with a brick. I'd say the Lima 44s are a good 35 years old (+) now and they still run strong, unlike those Austrain models where the gears fell apart... :whatever:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  2. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Most troublesome loco I have is a Bachmann 08 - not that my UK stuff is getting much of a run out at the moment.
     
  3. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Right here are three photos of this years green bits in the gorgeous gorge.

    1 - general view through to the cliff face
    3 - the improbable geological feature returns with err some misplaced glue, must tidy up the pool a bit.
    3 - this shows a gap between two tiles I am going to make into a stream
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    jakesdad13 and Gary like this.
  4. Davoetype

    Davoetype Full Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    373
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Looking great Dave and well done.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
    class48nswfan likes this.
  5. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    After a weekends gardening for my mum, a quick visit to what I thought a slightly disappointing York show followed by a good 6 hour session on Wallace Creek made up for the weekend.

    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

    jakesdad13 likes this.
  6. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Not much happening here - too much work in the real world and not enough time in the HO world. Over the last month a bit of ballasting and a bit of scenic fettling and Thursday night a brief but enjoyable operating session of which a couple of pictures are attached. Seriously thinking about converting all couplers to KDs but the Lima ones look trick. Any ideas out there?

    Its raining now, and cold but heck - I'm going out there.....I may be some time
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Davoetype

    Davoetype Full Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    373
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Hi Dave

    Its a bit of work but I took the decision some time ago to adopt kadees across the fleet. Anything works with anything.

    Cheers

    and happy modelling

    Richard
     
  8. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Hi Richard
    I have a couple of wagons which have different couplers at each end which enable me to mix trains up a bit but when you come to shunting the plan falls apart somewhat. Was looking at the bottom of my Lima GYs where the coupling seems to be part of the bogie (like some earlier powerline models). Only thing I can think of so far is to remove the coupling and fit Kadee No5s - More investigation needed. I suppose for block trains I could convert the first and last wagon only as an interim measure. How are things at Dargan?

    Dave
     
  9. Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    668
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    Dave
    I have converted many wagons and locos from Lima and others (mostly horn-hook) to Kadees. In the case of the bogie mounted couplers I cut the whole tongue of the coupler off so the bogie looks symmetrical (i.e. like a normal one).
    What you will need is a coupler height gauge, I have mine on a short piece of track that I can see everything from all angles, rather than just putting it together on the layout. Another thing you will need is what Americans call 2-56 screws. This translates to a metric size of approximately 2.2mm. I purchase proper threaded screws from an Australian place in Queensland on eBay. I also have a tap to thread the holes. Not so keen on self tappers. I probably over do it, but I am happy.
    You may need some different thickness styrene to pack the coupler up to the right height if required. You may also have to cut out some of the buffer beam to make them the correct height. Height can also be varied by using a different coupler, (called underset or overset depending on which way it goes) that offset the coupler head on the shank, so that it makes the coupler faces line up properly.
    It is very important that the heights are the same, like with all couplers really.
    What you might notice with body mounted couplers versus the bogie mounted ones is that you may have issues with the tighter curves. The longer the overhang from the bogie centre to the coupler the larger the radius of the track curve will need to be.
    Before you start converting to Kadee you will have to choose between normal size head and scale head. To the naked eye there is not too much difference, but they don't play well together. You may already have some of one sort or the other. Your decision may well be made on how many of each type you already have.
    The sheer variety of Kadee couplers can seem bewildering, and they do seem to have more numbers than necessary. But there are only a few key differences, and the rest are different combinations of these differences.
    • There is the height of the coupler (normal, underset or overset).
    • The length of the coupler arm
    • The type of spring (normal or whisker)
    • Size of head
    There would be some other different numbers for other things, but they might just muddy the waters for now.
    One other thing is make sure the couplers are all metal in the head, I have had some of the plastic off-brand ones on units supplied by the manufacturer trying to cut costs, but they usually fail, but they are hard to find new these days thankfully.
    Hope this helps
    Tony
     
  10. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Thanks very much Tony for a thoughtful and useful answer there. I have already learned the plastic kadee lesson and one of the few remining on my stock broke today. I had not realised there were different size heads either - generally I have used No 5 which has worked well.
    regards

    Dave
     
  11. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    3,883
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    class48nswfan likes this.
  12. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    I'm feeling a bit faint...….went out and checked my stock and what sort of Kadees I thought I would need (courtesy of the link Gary posted above). So far so good although with several locos and quite a number of wagons I was a little shocked at the numbers. Then I checked prices - ouch! So Kadee number 5 is sold in bulk packets and I have a good number of the little boxes they go in. So a bulk selection of these from Hatton to top up my spares and have some for conversion makes sense. A number of the old powerline wagons (23 in all) could use NEM type KD couplers and at £5.50 plus postage at £1.10 a pair that is around £150 quid or $279 dollars which more or less gets me a new loco (and IDR models are about to bring out a W Class shunter).

    So I need to grit my teeth and make a decision - do I persist with the all kadee programme? Do I adapt a first and last wagon for those sets that operate as bulk consists (so no shunting) or do I forget the whole thing and buy a new engine instead. All of this and more in the next exciting episode of Failroad Australia (as Wallace Creek is also known).
     
  13. Davoetype

    Davoetype Full Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    373
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I know it is far more exciting getting your hands on a new loco but with a project like kadees across your whole fleet, then there is the satisfaction that everything is consistent and you can run any item of motive power or rolling stock together. My recommendation goes with the kadees!

    Cheers

    and happy modelling

    Richard

    PS now off to the shed for speed matching of my 48s. Had too much fun running them but now, consistency across the fleet at 70 kph must be maintained.
     
    class48nswfan likes this.
  14. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Sigh....I know you're right Richard and I have ordered some kadees to make a start. How did your speed matching go - and how do you do it (and why?)

    Dave
     
  15. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    3,883
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I had a quick look at the W Class on the demo layout at the recent Epping Exhibition. I can tell you that it is a smooth runner and you will not be disappointed with the model.

    Yes Kadees are expensive, but as Richard said, it's good to know that everything couples together freely. Now if you wanted NEM tension locks, I have many that I have removed from my latest acquisitions over the last three or four years and replaced with NEM Kadees. I will add that I do run a few wagons (rakes of three) with the end wagons fitted with Kadees and then the other end and middle wagon fitted with NEM tension locks. I have done this on my conflats, 20t oil wagons, presflos and a few vans. Then again, these are British wagons and you would be converting Aussie wagons over.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  16. Davoetype

    Davoetype Full Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    373
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Hi Dave

    There are quite a number of youtube videos covering the subject of speed matching but in essence, I did it so that like kadees giving the ability to connect any item of rolling stock with any loco, speed matching allows you to form consists with any locomotive regardless of type or manufacturer. So my trio of 48s arrives into Parkes from a branch line with a string of wheaties in tow. Not enough power to tackle the grades ahead so 4501 is added to the consist to lend a hand. Would not matter if it was a steamie or diesel, they all run the same at any given throttle setting. Start point, acceleration curve, top speed and deceleration curves are consistent so you get very realistic operations on your layout. If like me you are an avid youtuber, you will see heaps of mixed locos usually referred to as lashups of aging EMDs, etc. It is not a difficult task to speed match once you have a go or two but you need the gear. An electronic speedometer is essential. I use an Accutrac II which I sourced from the USA. it gives readings in both KPH or MPH. Then of course you need decoder Pro to adjust the settings. Decoder pro shows the adjustment settings clearly and with most decoders you set the start voltage, top speed and decoder pro adjusts all the intermediate steps. You do it both in forward and reverse modes and make sure the loco motors are warmed up before you start.

    Just another item to add to your time and cost constraints.

    Cheers

    and happy modelling
    Richard
     
  17. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Thanks both - first batch of kadees have turned up so as I am away this weekend some work may start next week. Not sure I'll be bothering about the speed matching beyond working out an average speed around the layout and matching it to DC controller settings. Wallace Creek is your clapped old banger compared to the Dargan Rolls Royce!:D

    Dave
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  18. Davoetype

    Davoetype Full Member

    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    373
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I dont know about a clapped old banger...just the difference between dc and dcc. However, I do like the realism of dcc.

    Cheers

    and happy modelling

    Richard
     
    jakesdad13 and class48nswfan like this.
  19. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Its nice having visitors around to assist with the operation of the layout (as long as nothing goes wrong) and yesterday my regular operator Nick was round for what turned out to be an intensive freight only session. The main reason for this was to test the three sets of wagons which during the week had their NEM pocket lima type couplers replaced by Kadee equivalents. As can be seen from the correspondence above the plan was to retain some intermediate lima couplings but that plan failed quickly as a decision to split a steel train at Wallace Creek saw a Kadee loco trying to couple to a lima type coupling. Luckily I had a few spares so the black tanks and VR VOBX Gondolers became fully Kadee and the Golden Fleece tanks will follow as soon as the Kadees turn up.

    Nick suggested we run all the tanks as one long freight train so Wallace Creeks first 17 wagon tanker train ran (normal length six) and mighty fine it looked to. Oh for more space.

    Having a visitor round does mean more stock gets out as I like to keep visitors and myself busy. No slackers here. It does however mean things look overclogged (how is that not a word) and once Nick had departed I thinned things down. I prefer yards with space and although there is no set value I work to I reckon 6-7 freights in the 12 sidings is about right.

    This week hopefully my Powerline engines will get Kadee fitted if I get time. Meanwhile here are a few photographs.

    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

    jakesdad13 and Davoetype like this.
  20. class48nswfan

    class48nswfan Full Member

    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    184
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    I have been having a lot of trouble buying stock from two different Australian suppliers and I am steamingly angry. So angry that I may come over to Australia and buy from a shop instead.....
     

Share This Page