3D model tweaking

Discussion in '3D Modeling Projects' started by paul_l, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    With the advent of 3D printers, especially relatively cheaply - around the cost of a sound fitted loco, ok maybe not too cheap then, as a tool the 3D printer is becoming useful.

    There are currently two main types available to us punters in the sub £500 market.

    Fused Deposition Modelling FDM - uses a filament, heated then extruded through a nozzle on to a bed. The nozzle moves across the bed producing the finished model one layer at a time, each time a layer is completed, either the head is raised by the layer height or the bed is lowered by the layer height.

    The new kids on the block are Resin printing, there are two version Stereolithography SLA & Digital Light Processing DLP. Both use light to cure the resin.
    SLA uses a laser to cure the resin by drawing the image one layer at a time, much in the same way as the FDM print heads do.
    DLP uses a HD lcd screen to act as a mask, and exposes the whole bed to UV light for a set time to cure the resin on the plate. One big advantage is it takes the same time to print 5 models as it does to print 1 (providing they will fit on the build platform), whereas with both SLA & FDM it will take 5 times longer to print 5 models than to print 1.

    Quality wise the SLA is best, then DLP then FDM. However the cost of an SLA printer is approx 5 times that of a FDM or DLP printer.

    OK so what has this to do with 3D model tweaking, well I have been asked to test a couple of 3D models on my Anycubic Photon DLP printer to see if the upgrade from FDM printing to DLP is worth the cost, and also with the spiraling cost of Shapeways 3D printing service, if these can produce a comparable product.

    FDM printers normally on the finest settings print layers approx 0.1mm thick, the DLP printer on the standard setting prints at 0.05mm layer height, but this doesn't cover all the reason why the DLP prints look better, with FDM you are squeezing the filament out of the nozzle, which will ooze out of the side, it is also moving so this can also effect the thickness / outer edge of the layer.

    Curves and low angle slopes can be really testing for print, as these will exacerbate layer changes.


    As can be seen on the head code box roof, the side however are perfect.

    To try and overcome this I am going to incline the model by 15 & 30 degrees

    upload_2019-1-16_13-30-45.png
    Also with the DLP printer I have found you need to lift the model off the build plate using supports and a raft.

    Project sliced at 0.05mm layer height

    upload_2019-1-16_13-33-16.png

    Also the estimated print time is normally 50% over optimistic.

    Time to load the printer with resin and give it a try.

    Back in a few hours

    Paul
     
  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Oh forgot to mention the layers at 0.05 mm thick on the head code could be felt with the finger nail, but were smooth to the touch with the finger.

    Paul
     
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  3. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    While that's printing, there are many threads on tinternet regarding optimum or sweat spots for FDM layer height. Basic theory is the standard Z height is controlled by a lead screw, and the most common used has an 8mm pitch ( 1 rev = 8mm ), and the normal stepper has a 1.8 degree angle per step (200 steps per rev), so 8/200 = 0.04mm per step.
    The logic is to use layer heights of multiples 0.04mm.

    So.........

    As the Makerbot software I have allows the height to be adjusted, I have used the 26 cab roof, tilted at 15 degrees, and created a 0.04, 0.08, 0.1 (std) and 0.12 mm sliced models, time to print and see if this theory holds any water.

    Paul
     
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  4. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Well the first FDM print has started - 0.04mm layer height (don't even know if the printer do that fine), and have reduced the print speed to 20mm/sec, and 40mm/sec for the movement (I normally print faster than this), PLA filament, 220c, 30% infill, 2 outer layers, the bed heated to 70c, and fingers crossed.

    Paul
     
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  5. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I look forward to your results with interest. :cheers:
     
  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    The models used was from a pair of STL files provided by Steve Beattie to test the quality of the Resin process. The STL files are smooth with no sign of faceting.

    2h24m later and the Resin print has completed

    Post printing process - clean down with IPA and a brush to remove any resin clinging on to the print - this is bath No 1, and uses the oldest IPA. Then released from the build plate and given a wash in the ultrasonic cleaner, again with IPA as the solvent.
    Then as its the UK approx 4min under an ultraviolet lamp (sold for curing nail varnish).

    And the results

    Class 26

    Normal print

    15 degree tilt

    30 degree tilt

    Class 27

    Normal print

    15 degree tilt

    30 degree tilt

    Conclusion

    The Class 27 fronts and roofs were printed first, and I did think I may have an issue with one of the axes, as the lines were all in one direction, but the Class 26 were at 90 degrees to them, so it was down to slope direction.

    On the 26 at 15 derees facets can still be seen, and only just felt with the finger nail, at 30 degrees it's smooooooth, with no signs of faceting.

    On the 27 at both 15 and 30 degrees all sign of faceting has disappeared.

    Now just have to wait for the FDM printer to finish its first print - the 0.04 layer which should (if it works) be of a similar layer height to the DLP.

    Paul
     
  7. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    If you can get anywhere as good as that with an FDM printer, you can come and set my CTC Bizer up! :avatar:

    Seriously, they look good Credit to Steve for excellent file design. :thumbs:
     
  8. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    One point that hasn’t been mentioned is “air space” - where as with the SLA you would have a solid item (using more material) with the FDM printing it will “fill” it with open space and support material, in a pattern of your choice.
     
  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I didn’t know you had to do the IPA washes and the ultra violet light. I’ve learnt something here.
     
  10. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    All very techy :avatar:
     
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  11. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    FDM - 4h2m to print one @ 0.04mm layer height

    There is a texture feel to the print,


    The support material is still in place on the front hood

    And compared with the same file printed on the Resin printer


    I'm impressed, not as good as the Resin print, but a smear of filler and a light sanding the result would be acceptable.

    Interestingly, the facets show on the hood in exactly the same place on both models, so printing at 30 degrees would be good for both processes.

    I have started the 0.08 print on the FDM, in theory should take 2h1m to print, we'll see.

    Why bother I hear you ask, well I want to 3D print a boiler, so need to find away / settings required to get a near perfect result.

    Paul
     
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  12. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Andy

    Regarding the cleaning, two schools of thought

    1. Expose to uv before cleaning
    2. Expose to uv after cleaning

    Different approaches seem to be recommended in different areas, not sure if that is peer related or ambient temperature related.
    I find quite a lot of resin still on the surface of the prints even after allowing to drain for a while, so I tend to be in group 2. Care has to be taken as the prints are soft, so I use a tub with IPA in, and a soft 1" paint brush to clean down the prints and print bed (on the Anycubic Photon the print bed detaches from the printer). Remove them from the print bed and then I give them 90 sec in the ultrasonic cleaner.

    I would normally remove the supports before exposing to uv as they are softer, but for these tests I left the supports in place so I could tell them apart.

    Paul
     
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  13. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Not far off - 2h3m

    FDM 0.08


    The band showing may have been when I turned the additional fan on - I forgot to do it after the 3rd layer :facepalm:, and is probably the cause of some melting at the rear edge.

    0.1 test piece now printing - the normal high quality setting.

    Paul
     
  14. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I think what you are doing Paul is amazingly worth while, not only will your work up the anti for this kit by adding to it in a very hi tech way but will test the limits of current 3D printing generally. Plus as you say filler paste and stopper will iron out any slight facet marking. Now when I fitted the 3D printed Class 21 blunt noses to the body etch the fit was perfect, I used Roket brand 5 minute cyano gell and it made a totally solid union. :thumbs: So I have every confidence the same will happen with this kit.
     
  15. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I think it is horses for courses, I will try the FDM printer on brick courses once these tests are completed - may take a couple of days to print tho' :whatever:

    Paul
     
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  16. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Final two prints completed

    0.10 Layer height - default high quality setting 1hr 40m


    0.12 layer height - 1hr 20m


    Comparison 0.10 (left image) vs 0.12 (right image)


    Final comparison

    0.40 vs 0.10


    Now these are nasty prints for a 3D printer especially an FDM printer the dome of the roof will stress test most printers.

    My 3D printer is a CTC dual extruder 3D printer
    the only upgrade was an additional cooler added to the nozzles to help cool the printed parts. The rest is out of the box standard.

    Filament PrimaValue Dark Grey Filament approx £16 per kilo from Amazon

    All printer settings were identical except the layer height.

    Looks there may be some traction in the theory as the 0.12mm looks to be a better print than the 0.10 print, and the 0.04 print is impressive (for an FDM).

    Andy Sollis has provided me some files to test as well, and as a further test I will try the 0.04mm layer height on the brick base unit. As the Resin version took 10hrs to print this one may take a while.

    Paul
     
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  17. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I’ve got a spare 0.2 nozzle if you want to try.

    Have you put any doors on? That improved things. I had some Perspex cut at the local iron mongers- cost about £3!!!!

    Got a box upside down from “the range” to keep the heat in, but overlap the rear to let the power and plastic in without issue.
     
  18. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I don't own a printer, but I have been monitoring the outputs for years. I made up my mind a few years back only to think about resin (for the purposes of OO scale items), FDM is OK for bigger stuff (as its cheaper) but I really have a problem with the lines. A chap on another forum is a wiz, he tweaks the software to get sub steps out of the steppers for better resolution and has even made his own printer from scratch. What he produces (mostly from resin) is exquisite, including complete HO buildings and small stuff, like a horse drawn milk float, two horses and even milk crates with individual bottles!
     
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  19. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I've not needed to keep the heat in with PLA - ABS is another matter.

    Issue with 0.2 nozzles they can tend to block - especially when using cheap filament, like what I do :avatar:

    Just made up the print file in makerbot for the base unit,

    Temp 220c
    Bed Temp 70c
    3 outer layers
    30% infill
    0.04 layer height
    Raft but no supports, so I will have an issue with the floor
    Increased the extrusion speed to 40mm/s (against 20 mm/s on the test prints)
    Movement speed increased top 60 mm/s from 40 mm/s on the test piece.

    Just need to start the print off.

    Paul
     
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  20. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Well if your filament is cheap... I can beat it cos mine was £9.99 off fleabay! :avatar:
     

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