Adding real coal.

Discussion in 'General Information' started by mydadstoys, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. mydadstoys

    mydadstoys Full Member

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    afternoon all. I’m going to start modelling the coal staithe area of my layout. I plan to use use real coal which I have broken up into smaller pieces. Do I use neat PVA glue to secure the coal with. Any advice will be appreciated.:scratchchin:
     
  2. Matt

    Matt Full Member

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    I'd say so if it's lumps your glueing down. Depends if you're also using the coal dust. If so, it's likely to clump with neat PVA and float on top of diluted PVA.

    You could also try using CA glue for the bigger bits.

    Matt
     
  3. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I have used real coal where it would be used on the real thing. I've used pva and a floor polish called Kleer, its now made by Pledge, apparently its the same product. with pva it dries a dull and flat finish and I have painted it with gloss black afterwards and it looks pretty good to me.

    Pete.

    P/s, like Matt says, with pva, if you give it a little squirt of IPA it should help the glue to flow and prevent any bunching up. P.
     
  4. mydadstoys

    mydadstoys Full Member

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    :hismiley:Guys thanks for the advice it really helps.:thumbs:
     
  5. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I normally use 50/50 PVA/water, put on with a dropper and gently brushed where it's needed with a small soft paintbrush, for tender and bunker coal loads. I have tried spraying from a small spray bottle, but it's difficult to keep the spray from going where you don't want it to go.
    Keith.
     
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  6. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Does no one put washing up liquid in the water / pva mix any more?
     
  7. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    Andy, no need once you discover IPA, its a wonder product :idea:, used for:-

    Cleaner
    de-greaser
    surface tension remover
    Air brush acrylic solvent
    Air brush cleaner
    Solder flux removal
    astrigent/antiseptic
    to name a few
    :thumbs:
     
  8. mydadstoys

    mydadstoys Full Member

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    :hismiley:Andy my pva mix still had liquid in and it’s the only one I will only use.:thumbs:
     
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  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    And where do I get IPA.

    Last time I saw it was in a pub!

    But I like the idea! :thumbs::tophat:
     
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  10. Gary

    Gary Will the real Gary please stand up... Staff Member Administrator

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    For what its worth, don't use all coal. Build some profile up underneath the coal using card (layerered) or same foam sponge. Paint the card or foam with black paint, allow to dry, paint with neat PVA then sprinkle on the coal particles. Job done.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  11. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    Just put "Isopropyl Alcohol/Isopropanol" into ebay search, make sure it is 99% or pharma or lab grade

    For a list of uses, just read all the way down this item!

    I bought 5 x 1 litres, as it works out cheaper, but 1 litre will last you a year, if you buy 500ml, you will run out sooner than you think and curse not buying more.

    Should be around £6 a litre, £16 for 5 litres.

    It evaporates like lightning, so decant into a good quality spray bottle for use, an old refillable perfume bottle is best.

    Lumsdonia Tip 114 added just for you!;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  12. Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

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    Thanks Gary, nicely timed advice there. Am just doing the same with my coal staithes, using air dried clay for the former, but painting it black rather than the terracotta will bring a much better result.

    Remember with ordering IPA on eBay is that a lot of postal services will not carry this as it will classify as a "dangerous good" as it is highly flammable.

    Cheers
    Tony
     
  13. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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  14. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    I almost completely forgot the other wonder use, IPA is THE preferred solvent for cleaning rails, either by hand or used in a tank cleaning wagon or pad cleaning wagon! :hammer:

    I can't say I have ever tried real coal (I don't possess any and have no clue were to get it from!) but I can't imagine it is any different to doing gravel, in which case this video shows the whole process.
     
  15. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Getting Real Coal esp in Australia not always as easy as it sounds
    Well in days gone past is was never an issue just go past your nearest railway and pick some up from along side the line
    Now days with modern coal hoppers,OHS and fenced lines it near impossible unless you live near a Colliery or preserved railway to get your hands on a good lump
    However sometimes you find it in the most unusual places
    In my case a friend lives on the Hunter river in the NSW Hunter Regin and whilst cooling off in the river one summer afternoon I notice some smooth black looking rocks in the river sand, these turned out to be lumps of coal smoothed by years of river flow, most where palm size or a little bigger but I did find one lump that was a bit bigger than the size of a foot ball, so i now have a life time supply of this shiny black coal with out having to resort to other means to get it, that is most suitable for model use and breaks up into very nice sizes for tenders wagons or for scenic use around the layout,
    All coal isn’t the same, some coal is shiny, others dull some have a brown colour or mineral staining some are more shale like and don’t breaks up into nice pieces for modelling, so getting the right lump for a railway tender or wagon can be hit or miss as well.
     
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  16. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    If you have any reclaimed colliery sites nearby, they tend to be popular for country parks for some reason, you may be able to pick small'ish lumps of coal of the ground. I picked up a carrier bag almost full from the country park where I take Bear for a walk. Its also useful for making rock faces in cuttings etc.
    As an aside, years ago I was one of the members at Barrow Hill loco shed, roundhouse, near to where I live. We stripped the top off the turntable to do some painting/repairs and I found loads of coal that had fallen from locos being turned so I liberated some for my models, real steam coal :giggle:.

    Cheer's, Pete.
     
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  17. 60019Bittern

    60019Bittern Full Member

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    When I worked in the local colliery I was a mate of the geologist and he used to let me have coal suitable for 4mm and 7mm that he used to prepare for doing calorific tests on. Now I have to result to finding the odd lump (at one or other of the preserved lines I visit) and grinding it up with 2lb lump hammer.
    Going back to the original question I pour out the required amount of said coal and put it into an old yogourt tub (or similar) and pour in a dollop of neat pva and stir it all together, drop it into a tender or wagon and shape then leave overnight to dry. The PVA tends to dry clear so if needed a quick squirt with some matt black from an aersol or airbrush and job done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  18. Gary

    Gary Will the real Gary please stand up... Staff Member Administrator

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    I always grab a lump of coal when I'm in Thirlmere (Railway Museum) off the crew running the shuttle to Buxton and back ! One lump tends to go a long way.....

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  19. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    Grab a cuppa before settling down to watch this one (seriously its worth watching all of the one and a half hours), but this guy is the King of site ore/coal collecting!
    Stephen Bennett:Scott Woods' B&LE/Union RR Steel Themed Layout
    It's also a fantastic video of an awesome layout! It's also an education in steel production manufacture!

    Comment about the coal at 40:30
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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  20. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Last small piece of coal I had came from the Black Country Living Museum. It was just kicking about on the roadway when I visited a few years ago, and yes, it does go a long way.
    Keith.
     
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