Military trains

Discussion in 'Running Your Trains' started by oldknotty, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. oldknotty

    oldknotty Full Member

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    I hope this is the right spot to ask this question ?? I am putting together a Military train from WW2 consisting of Warflats with vehicles on them . My question is what type of Brake van would i use on the end of the train ?? The Loco is a WD austerity 2-8-0 # 77003 .
     
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  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    The 45 or later 50 ton Second World War registered by the LMS as private user stock was vacuum fitted with screw shackle couplings, depending on what other rolling stock was placed in the consist these could run at 50mph max with a vacuum fitted brake van, so technically a train of Warflats could be designated as class 4 trains because of their longer length and riding qualities on bogies. For model purposes a vacuum fitted brake van is what you need and if on the LMS a 20ton LMS Standard van would do.
     
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  3. oldknotty

    oldknotty Full Member

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    Thank you for the info York Paul much appreciated :)
     
  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    :thumbs: any time
     
  5. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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    Paul hello there a couple of other considerations that should be considered when assembling a train.

    1) if the train is active then in most cases the brake van would not have been attached, for example a standard GWR 28xx would have had 8 to 12 bolster (1939-42 approx) with two unloading wagons (dependent on whether they are side loading or front/rear loading)

    2) one to two syphon wagons a carriage and a brake carriage

    3) early part of the war the GWR only had 8 wagons these where the big 30 and 45 ton bolster wagons

    4) why “8” this was the standard tank company later on they pulled more as the war progressed.

    5) the carriage and syphon wagons where used to house and transport the crews and technical types and of course the equipment to tie down the vehicles

    6) later the trains had the crews in the vehicles for AA protection I carnt comment on the point if all the crew members were in the vehicles or just the gunners,

    This should help you build a military train, you can also use double headers LMS/GWR and so on ….. My standard GWR train would have 11 wagons, coaches and syphon plus 2 unloading wagons (sometimes) total of 15. I have some realy good reference books if you need details on the makeup. However iI am a GWR (type) and these references are GWR.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
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  6. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    I’m looking forward to seeing one of these Big guns from Oxford Model Rail
    Currently advised as Feb delivery.
    I’m guessing on most layout they will be a siding sitter but what a model it looks to be.
    E5A57363-A3EA-45F9-A912-292668BDE89D.jpeg
     
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  7. oldknotty

    oldknotty Full Member

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    Thank you very much Richard the info is much appreciated and it will go well on my train :)
    Martin
     
  8. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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    Chris

    This is why you order two, one for the railway and as a model, however who has a 4 x 4 space to put one in the gun firing position, to allow for the recoil of the gun and the traverse, I wonder if Oxford Rail will produce all the ancillary wagons (ammo and ammo crane and so on.....) and dont forget the crews. It should look good behind the Bachmann ROD with the Oxford ROD in the rear pushing the train, both in black. “I have order two”.

    Cheers
     
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  9. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I was watching a programme on German "super weapons" this morning and one they came up with, a giant howitzer for shelling Sebastopol in Russia had twin, side by side tracks, fired 600mm shells and had a crew of 1000 men to operate it!!

    Pete.
     
  10. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    I have watched many a video about them, they where fired from a curved track (as the barrel will not rotate) for lateral aim, fired a few shots then rolled back into a camouflaged tunnel, so the Allies could not spot them or work out were they were, from the trajectory. They had little effect overall in the war, as they were always short of ammo! I really fancy one myself, maybe I will scratch build one one day or just keep trolling ebay for a Lima one
    Also available in the past:-
    Model Power HO Big Gun Car Us Army MPC99163
    Hasegawa 1/72 German Railway Gun K5(E) Leopold
    Rivarossi H0 - HR6187 - Heavy railway gun K5 "Leopold"
    HobbyBoss 1/72 German 280mm K5(E) Railway Gun Leopold # 82903
    Lima H0 - 10 9704 G - Multiple Unit Set with Leopold K5 Railway Gun

    There is even one on Thingyverse!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019 at 1:13 PM
  11. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    Rails got a collectors, complete collection many months ago, they still have most of them for sale here
     
  12. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's the biggest rail gun ever built for the Germans. The Schwerer Gustav. It took 3 weeks to assemble and needed 1400+ operators to build and fire it.

    Schwerer Gustav rail gun..jpg
    Now that would be an impressive model in 7mm scale :eek::avatar::avatar:

    Cheer's, Pete.
     
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  13. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    It is available in 1/144 and 1/72 scale as a kit, there is even a 1/35 kit which is £700, can't find a 1/43, maybe Paul's next 3D project? :avatar::avatar::avatar:
     
  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    I take it that it’s 1400+ people was mainly the construction in the factory and the railway lines. ? I don’t follow that you would need that many folk to Crew it surely? :scratchchin:
     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Just make sure it doesn't run on a modern image layout fitted with 25Kv overhead masts ... and probably not one for the Box File competition even in N Gauge. :avatar:
     
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  16. Toto

    Toto Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Hi Richard

    More images of the train " make up " would be really interesting if you can post them up. Some of the ancillary wagons that accompanied the gun itself would be off interest.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  17. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Just quoting what I read in the article about it Andy.
     
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  18. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Ah, not disputing it... I just thought it would be a bit crowded:scratchchin:
     
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  19. TimberSurf

    TimberSurf Full Member

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    I sits in my mind that a thousand has been mentioned before! Irked, I did some research, the Krupp K5 only needed 24 crew. So further research revealed the following.

    The numbers quoted were for set up. i.e. hundreds needed to 'build' the parts for the Gustav, and in both cases, hundreds to dig cuttings and make bomb proof bunkers for it to retreat into and of course the special track curve or double line needed. Plus supply chain for ammo and troops supplies, mess camp, sleeping encampment etc.

    When they sent the Heavy Gustav Railway Gun, which weighed 1,350 tonnes and could fire a 7 tonne shell to a range of 30 miles) to Russia for the Eastern Front siege of Sevastopol, they used 3,000 people to set it up to hit the bunkers.
     
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  20. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up.. it makes more sense ....
     

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