7mm Scale Gladiator J6 - with working inside motion

Discussion in 'Loco Builds' started by Rob Pulham, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. paul blythe

    paul blythe Full Member

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    Looking really good. I've been doing a bit of research for when I build the ace kit. I'd forgotten how many detail differences there where in these locos. Are the globe lubricators from laurie griffin. I will be needing some for mine. I plan on building 64249 which doesnt apear to have mechanical libricators and has pipes running from the cab on the side of the boiler unlike yours
     
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  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Beautifully delicate craftsmanship finish as always Rob... what a lovely engine.:tophat::tophat::tophat::tophat::thumbup:
     
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  3. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Paul,
    Once you start looking they are an absolute minefield of subtle differences. When I get to building one for me, I am pretty sure it will have the pipes running along the boiler as you suggest. Pretty much all of the LNER liveried J6's that I have pictures of are like that. I can only assume that the mechanical lubricators were a BR addition.

    I don't know whether it's of any interest but I am just about to list a copy of Yeadon which covers th J6 in the sales page. As I went to put the coy I have been using back in the library I realised that I seem to have 2 copies of that volume (37 part B)
     
  4. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Thanks Paul.
     
  5. paul blythe

    paul blythe Full Member

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    I was only looking for a copy of that book yesterday. I'd be really interested thank you. I have photo of the loco I plan to do from 1959. For.some.reason it didnt recieve mechanical lubricators. It also has a riveted smokebox door similar to what scotsman had at the same time. The tender is the bit im struggling with. I suspect it's a second hand one from a previously scrapped loco
     
  6. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Paul,

    The tenders are a bit of a nightmare, unsuspecting I bought the kit for my customer with an Ivatt Horseshoe tender. It needed an Ivatt Self trimming tender but it could also have been fitted with a Stirling Tender. Thankfully my customer was quite relaxed about it and funded the self trimming tender and told me to keep the horseshoe tender. That tender will now go behind a J6 or a D2/D3 more likely the latter.

    If you can post or share a photo I might be able to identify which tender it is.

    PS the Yeadon book is in the small ads.
     
  7. paul blythe

    paul blythe Full Member

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    64229_cr.jpg
    heres the tender. the front plate apears higher and more curved than similar tenders i've built in the past. The ace kit i have has what i believe is a horseshoe tender. the previous one i built 10-15 years ago came with parts to build different versions but the newer kit i have doesn't include any alternative parts
     
  8. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Paul

    I will do a bit of research for you. I can narrow it down already, it's not an Ivatt self trimming tender.

    Sadly the Ivatt horseshoe and the Stirling type are visually very similar.
     
  9. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Paul,

    After looking at quite few pictures and checking with a friend who is a bit of a GNR Guru we both agree that it's an Ivatt Horseshoe tender. They were the type fitted to most of the class.

    While doing the research I realised that the spare tender that I have is in fact a Stirling tender not an Ivatt type as I had in mind. Thankfully some LNER D2/D3's were attached to Stirling tenders at various points in their lives so I can use it for what I planned.

    Gladiator sell tender kits separately or there is always the option of asking William if he will let you have the tender from one of his other GNR loco kits.
     
  10. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Not a great deal to show for this week’s efforts on the J6.

    I filled in the lightening holes in the front of the frames as the photo that I am working from doesn’t show any. I also cut away the bottom of the etched ashpan sides and fitted a representation of the bottom. This may need a bit of trimming to clear the gear wheel once finally fitted.

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    The rest of the time has been spent patiently filing the hornblocks, hornguides and the cranks to enable the cranks and eccentrics to fit between the centre hornguides and rotate freely.

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    Due to the need to get the loco around 5’6” curves the frames are a bit narrower than they might have been if I had been building for myself.

    So far, so good.
     
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  11. paul blythe

    paul blythe Full Member

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    Lots of inspiration for when I build mine. The crank axle is impressive. Luckily it apears I have the horseshoe tender although there are a few minor detail differences such as a slightly higher front plate and the toolbox just behind it.
     
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  12. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    That's good news Paul, it seems that the horseshoe tenders were modified a bit by BR to bring the front plate forward and relocate the tool boxes.

    So many detail differences to keep life interesting and model makers on their toes.
     
  13. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    After reading Tony’s struggle to fit all the inside motion in his J6 and observations made on a couple of forums by Ian Middleditch and Jim Snowdon. I decided to take the plunge and cut some new frame spacers to give me more room to play with. With the new spacers I have given myself a couple more millimetres. The downside is that I need to make a new motion bracket but I am sure it will be worth it.

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  14. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    I have been distracted for the last few days by teaching myself to draw in QCAD with a view to getting a few things etched. Before that I had made some progress on the rest of the inside valve gear.

    Early in the week Tony Geary kindly pointed me at a photo of the inside valve gear on a 7 ½” gauge N2. Armed with this as a starting point I searched online and found a Facebook page chronicling the guy’s build. In his photo section I found loads of photos which have gone a long way to clarify in my mind what I was struggling to interpret from the GA.

    I have a few photos of the full sized N2 valve gear which again are great for showing how things fit together above the slide bars but not below which is the area that I was struggling with. The build photos have clarified things now I just need to make up all the parts. Unfortunately, most of mine will need to be made from scratch as my spares box is nowhere near as comprehensive as Tony’s.


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    The sections are just resting in place for the photos I have a lot more to attach to both the motion plate and cylinder front before finally joining them.
     
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  15. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Although I haven’t posted an update since before Christmas, I have been doing a bit here and there. Mostly this has been making the additional bits and pieces needed for the inside motion. The motion for the J6 differs from other versions of Stephenson’s motion in that it has four valves rather than the more usual two. There are two between the cylinders and two above them. Although I have the full LG Stephenson’s motion set, in the end I doubt that I will be able to use much more than the connecting rods, eccentric rods and the slide bars and cross heads. The other bits will go in the spares box for a future build.

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    The arms that fit to the lower linkages still need to be shortened to 5.5mm between hole centres.

    The expansion links in the motion kit are a couple of millimetres longer than the GA and have a lug on one side which I would have to cut off for this particular application.

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    As I am making all the other parts to match the dimensions on the GA, I opted to make a pair of expansion links to match. Working on the theory that I always have the LG castings as a fall back, if my home brewed ones don’t fit for any reason.

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  16. paul blythe

    paul blythe Full Member

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    excellent stuff. with the relively large amount of daylight under the J6 boiler this is well worth doing. I'm not sure mine will be quite so detailed when built though
     
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  17. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Wow, I can now see the attraction of diesels :avatar:

    Beatiful modelling, now you're getting CAD cracked, time to move onto a 3D modelling program and a small 3D resin printer (would recommend a 4K mono printer) to create the bits you're making. You could use the printed model directly or use them as master for lost wax casting of Brass or Nickel Silver especially if you will need several of each item. Or even make white metal moulds and cast them.

    Paul
     
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  18. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Amazing work Rob... simply mind blowing.:tophat::tophat::tophat::tophat::tophat::tophat:
     
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  19. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    A post on a few forums by Nick Dunhill on his build of a Rhymney Railway R class on preparing the eccentric sheaves couldn’t have been timelier.

    I am just at that point so the night before last I made up a similar jig from a couple of bits of wood that I had on the bench and having consulted the GA for the length of the sheave I marked up and drilled a hole for the pin (a 0.8mm drill bit). Finally, I filed and soldered up the first sheave. Last night I managed a couple more.

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  20. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Beautiful workmanship Rob!!

    Pete.
     

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