Building display dioramas

Discussion in 'Scenics' started by York Paul, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Ron and Andy for you kind comments... I'm starting to think this bridge looks more the part located on the old Potteries Loop line due to the dark sooty look of the brickwork. So I think light translucent overlays of sienna and Venetian red will lift things a bit more in the way I'd like. Experimenting is the name of this game to make the job right.
     
    Andy_Sollis and Rob Pulham like this.
  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    In my minds eye this was the sort of effect I'd wanted to achieve in a layout idea where the viewer looks up at the trains as oposed to the standard birds eye view of looking down over proceedings. About just over a year ago now I'd been toying with making a layout based on an embankment scene and the Leek Arm was a natural contender for me particularly as I'd been inspired to recreate a model replica of the Leek Mirfield parcels train, most of the rolling stock I'd been quietly accruing in the background save for a decent 6 wheel LNER CCT(E) van. However I do think that project idea is now dead in favour of a better layout show consisting of a large river bridge, a tall embankment and a background woodland scene, the Mirfield consist (with BR Standard 4 loco could feel just at home running on this new layout instead now. That is when it eventually gets built... oh dear I haven't explained my project workload for the next few months now have I :avatar::avatar::avatar:... all will be revealed in good time as the saying goes.:thumbs::tophat:

    [​IMG]

    So just to remind here is the 19.52pm Leek - Mirfield parcels working being tripped to Stoke on the Leek arm of the Churnet Line headed by 75030. I think its a nice comparison between the both pictures but the scene captured in the real train picture probably wouldn't hold audience attention for too long.
    Again original picture taken by the late John Burgess.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  3. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Reminds me (not saying it’s the same) of the bridge south of Froghall station.
     
  4. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Sometimes Paul, when it comes to an exhibition layout, it’s not just the “trains” that need to draw the attention, and as I’ve learnt (but not put in to practice) from the wife and kids, their enjoyment will come from the “spot this” or “spot that” or something else moving aspects in the side details.

    But also, high embankments looking up again are an issue. At what height do you put it at? Adult? Which is heigh.. but then, what about the next generation that are smaller? If they can’t see, they will walk away. Same issue for disabled. They may be lower if wheelchair bound. Sadly, there has to be a compromise and the “look down” effect is often the best one.
     
    York Paul likes this.
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Yes I see your point Andy and all aspects duly noted, this will be a case to experiment to get a balanced compromise between what works in practice and cuts a somewhat different approach... I think I have an idea of what would be good for all.:thumbs:
     
  6. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    There`s not too much you can do with the height of the baseboard, because whatever height it is, it will be awkward for somebody.
    This is the trouble with an exhibition layout as you have to try and please everybody, regardless of their height.
    If the layout were to be viewed only at home, I would set the baseboard at 4 feet plus off the floor......or basically.... to suit yourself.
    If you want to cater for children and the disabled at an exhibition, you need to bring it right down so that they can get up close and personal. The able bodied adults that view it will adapt.
    I think exhibition layouts should be expendable. They get knocked about when being transported anyway, so why not let kids and the disabled get close enough to touch and even have a go.
    That`s how you encourage the young ones into the hobby.......let them have a go and accept any minor damage as wear and tear for an exhibition layout.
    :cheers::tophat:Gormo
     
    steve and Andy_Sollis like this.
  7. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Damn .... no machine gun turrets to keep the kids away from it then. :avatar: you always spoil the fun Gormo .....:avatar:
     
    steve likes this.
  8. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Sorry Toto......but you`re not allowed to shoot the mini punters that get dragged along to exhibitions..........even though you may want to.
    But that`s what I mean you see............if in your mind your layout is too precious to be used or touched by anybody else.......maybe it could be very stressful exhibiting.
    I`m not saying that the little punters should be allowed a free hand to wreck the joint, but rather supervised properly, and allowed a chance to have a go.
    Then they`ll be hooked for life......:cool::cool::cool::cool:
    :cheers::tophat:Gormo
     
    steve and Andy_Sollis like this.
  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Yes, I agree.. nail on the head..

    There will be no future if we don’t get them interested.
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,358
    Likes Received:
    3,912
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    If you are to build a model of a railway on an embankment, the easiest way for the smaller breed of humans or those with disabilities to look at it, is to have the embankment closer to the edge of the baseboard or the embankment high enough that when you view it from either 3' or 5' high, you can see the models on the track. So in reality, an O gauge diorama with an embankment on it does not really need to be more than 12" wide and you can still have a 4" - 6" high embankment. There would not necessarily be the need to highly detail the opposite side of the embankment as it would generally not be seen. This diagram explains my ramblings...


    Over the years I have exhibited all of my layouts with 1m high legs and this seems to suit most patrons, young and old. Young children, say under 6 have a short length of focus time looking at models, unless they are Lego or fantasia style modelling. I found that the older children over 8 years of age tend to focus a little more on the layout and the trains running as at that age, they know if they are interested in railways.

    It is all very well getting the younger generation of children interested in modelling, but I'm sure it will be the die hard modellers that like to 'build' their locomotives and rolling stock that will be interested in the Highlander models, so in retrospect, it will not matter how high you build your diorama or railway... ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
    Andy_Sollis, York Paul and Mr Porter like this.
  11. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks for your time drawing the sketch and info input here Gary, it all make a lot of sense and helps clarify matters by explaining what works and what doesn't in the public eye, this is important for me as I've never exhibited ever ... I only build stuff. Now with this scene I calculated the width of the baseboard to be 19 inches, this allows me a double track formation with an embankment height of just over 4 inches which in reality offers a model height view of what would be fifteen feet in the real thing. Following this the bridge could be installed at a realistic height and in many ways have a prototypical look, what hit me in the face was when I crouched down to take that picture of the two vent vans with brake just how good the angles are for smaller people and those crouching. Obviously when standing normal the view line does go some way to to avoiding this commonly seen "overhead" birds eye projection presentation, its as if the embankment acts as a height extension without having taller baseboards. :thumbs: Again thanks for all advice Gary.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I thought I'd just take a minute to show a very easy method of producing a mould to make multiples in plaster of paris, the first stage is to make a plaster master, this is needed when replacement moulds are required should they become lost or damaged in the casting process. From this I make a basic silignum open mould as seen by the blue rubber pieces, finally the pour of plaster makes the object which is seen below the blue silignum mould units, once released from the mould some simple triming of edges to remove excess material from what is effectively the top of the open end of the mould. All very simple really and quite effective for about twenty quids worth of materials and no need to go messing with gun silicone in a very rickety and very often hit or miss process.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  13. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Luv ..... Leeeeeee
     
  14. Mr Porter

    Mr Porter Failure is always an option. Full Member

    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Hi Paul, Trying to get my head round these, correct me if I'm wrong.
    The top left white plaster master produces the right hand middle blue mould which produces the white plaster piece on top of the left hand middle blue mould.
    I think:facepalm:

    Confused,
    Jim:headbanger:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    So the wing wall pieces of the culvert fit into their location of the diorama which proves the measurements are correct and the mould fit for reuse, however as these items were only cast yesterday I must allow at least another three days drying out time for the plaster before the wing walls are glued and painted. Some layering of scenic scrub foliage has started along the embankment base and around the masonry to create the perspective of depth and nature growth, for this type of layering I prefer to use Gaugemaster scenics GM105 GM102 and GM 157 for ground cover over Woodland scenics polyfibre and clump foliage.

    [​IMG]
     
    Gary, Keith M, jakesdad13 and 2 others like this.
  16. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Hi Jim... ok lets take this logically as moulds and negative casting can often become confusing to say the least. Right in the picture are three different types of object process which make up the culvert so, in the centre row is the culvert arch front, on the left is the culvert left hand side wing wall and on the right is the right hand side wing wall, there is also another mould of the main bridge plinth capping stone seen in the bottom right of the picture. So firstly we must make masters which are the top three plaster of paris items, the left and right wing walls sit in a plastic frame for protect as they are delicate, they will be removed from their cases when they are needed to make the blue silicate mould. Now the middle row from left to right are the silicate moulds made from the plaster of paris masters and I have placed the left hand wing wall casting on top of the silicate mould to show how a comparison between the negative space made in the mould and how that transfers into a positive 3D object. The front arch of the culvert face and the right hand wing wall plaster of paris castings are shown below their respective silicate moulds so again a comparison shape can be made. On the left again is the capping stone which I mentioned earlier.:thumbs:

    So quite simply Jim it is a three stage process.:thumbup:
     
  17. Mr Porter

    Mr Porter Failure is always an option. Full Member

    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    148
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Thanks Paul
    Jim:headbanger:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  18. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    nicely done Paul.:thumbs:
     
  19. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    The bit I didn't mention Jim was that the blue silicate moulds for the culvert wing walls in the picture are shown incorrectly, the left side one should have been in the right hand column and vis versa for the right one this is because the handed shape is reversed in the mould....a bit like a mirror image, I didn't show it that way so as not to confuse.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Weathering surfaces on the bridge is pretty much done now but I'm sure there will still be bit which jump out at me for attention... they always do so really its more likely to add in further cement brick pointing detail and tone the stone further and maybe a few light touches to redden the bricks here and there. So next stop is lay the track in and ballast it then add further detail touches such as alignment pegs, chipping bin and a wooden track circuit cupboard of the old fashioned variety.

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page