Close Coupling Coaches Project

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by gormo, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Folks,
    I seem to be bogged down in coupling projects at the moment, however I guess one thing leads to another.
    After completing my 3 link project ( I think ???? ),
    https://platform1mrc.com/p1mrc/index.php?threads/gormo-s-3-link-coupling-project.5610/
    my mind seemed to immediately go to coaches.??
    I have not researched this subject extensively, however as far as I understand, the current crop of retrofit magnetic couplings only come in set lengths and are consequently not adjustable.
    I will stand corrected if somebody pushes me in the right direction.
    With variations in measurements between manufacturers of the same model, there stands a good chance that the most desirable, practical or closest gap between coaches could not be achieved.
    Even on all the same stock from the one manufacturer, you could maybe tweak that extra millimeter if the couplings were adjustable.
    My first experiments have been quite successful and I think a bit more time and thought will produce a simple magnetic coupling that will be adjustable.
    At this stage I`ve only tried fitting to old Mainline and Hornby and Lima stock where you can unscrew and remove a tension lock. I had previously converted the Lima stock to small Bachmann tension locks.
    NEM fittings are yet to be worked on but I think there will be a fairly easy solution there.

    What I`ve done so far is used some 0.75 mm galvanized wire to create this small bracket. It is squeezed together to create a vertical piece to mount the magnet on, and at the right angle bend, the wire is parted so that it can pass either side of the mounting screw for the original tension locks.The magnet is a Neodymium 3 x 1.5 mm with 160g rating for pulling power.
    I have set the upright wire to project out as far as the buffer ends.
    This leaves a 3mm gap between the buffers.
    As you can see, the coupling can move forward or backward if required.

    DSC01252.JPG

    On the Lima bogie, it has to be mounted on top to achieve the correct height. It`s the same requirement when fitting tension locks.
    I cut the wire a bit short on this one........but it`s a learning process at this stage.


    DSC01250.JPG

    Here is a Lima connected to a Mainline. Three millimeters between the buffers instead of 6 mm and enough clearance to run through the tight sections on my railway.....pulling and pushing.
    The bonus for me, and the reason the magnets are mounted up at buffer beam height, is that it will be compatible with my 3 link system.
    The magnets could be mounted lower if required.


    DSC01247.JPG



    DSC01248.JPG



    DSC01249.JPG

    Now this folks is very easy to make........wire, pliers and two magnets per coach......about 60 cents per coach.
    The magnets have to be mounted as an A end and a B end, however coaches usually stay in rakes, so I can`t see a problem with that.
    I also need to try another type of glue to mount the magnets. I`m not quite happy with the Superglue on these ones.
    So more testing to do and I have to find some NEM stock to see how I may approach that.??
    Stay tuned
    :tophat:Gormo
     
    York Paul, Andy_Sollis and steve like this.
  2. Chris M

    Chris M When nothing is going right ... go left Full Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    107
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Gormo,

    That looks like a great start. As far as glue goes others recommend superglue GEL for extra strength bonds. I use the Loctite brand and Gorilla makes one (also Selleys). I have used it on parts of the Garratt and it works well. If you aren't using the GEL it may be worth a try.

    Otherwise, I guess you would need to go the epoxy route.

    Chris
     
  3. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Chris,
    I am using Loctite Professional and an el cheapo 2 dollar shop one as well...........both seem to be about the same.
    I will try the Gel .........I have used Gorilla before and that was very good so maybe that`s the answer or some contact adhesive.???
    Or epoxy.?
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  4. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    4,144
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Super ......

    On my soldering jig I use Neodium magnets to hold the bits in place, I've had a couple of accidents where I've got too close to the magnet and the solder has taken to the magnet. May be worth an attempt to solder the magnets to the wire.

    Paul
     
  5. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Paul,
    I`ve always assumed that the heat might kill the magnet......don`t why.???.........but it`s worth a go
    :tophat:Gormo
    Edit........I just looked it up........it`s a no go.......
    https://totalelement.com/blogs/work...ets/can-i-solder-or-weld-to-neodymium-magnets
     
  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    4,144
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Well that answers that then.

    Maybe tag in place with Cyano and secure properly with Epoxy.

    Paul
     
  7. Sol

    Sol Full Member

    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    113
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Gormo, how does that work going through a crossover - S bend version ? Both pushing & pulling as the couplings are basically FIXED to each other.
     
  8. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Sol,
    To be honest I`m still working it out, however I have run it pulling and pushing through 2 left hand large radius points ( as a crossover ) then across 2 double slips into a medium left hander connected to a medium right and then backwards and forwards through my problem S formation near the end of the station platform.
    I think because the connection between the coaches is relatively short, the swing at the end of each wire is minimal. If the wires were longer there would be more swing.
    So in effect the two bogies are connected close enough to travel along as almost one bogie........I think...???
    I`ll do a short video of the coaches travelling through these areas so you might better understand what I`m talking about.
    Leave it with me.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  9. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Well Sol,
    I`ve done a video and discovered that the magnets pivot / separate when enough stress is applied to their joint.
    Is this a good thing..???......don`t know yet......not sure.....maybe a rethink / re-design needs to apply to make these more suitable for all applications.....:scratchchin:



    I`ll sleep on it.........that`s when the magic happens.....:avatar:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
    paul_l likes this.
  10. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Gormo, greta work so far.

    You need someone with a 3D printer to make this :


    The base would have an elongated hole in the centre for fixing to the coach. Of course the front face would be solid from the adjustable lower plate to the magnet casing. It could be printed for either a round or square magnet. ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  11. Chris M

    Chris M When nothing is going right ... go left Full Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    107
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Gormo,

    Happy to 3D print Gary's suggestion above if you want to try it. Give me a rough design and dimensions and I'll give it a go.

    Chris
     
  12. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Gary,
    Yes that`s a good design.........I would add some triangular bracing where the horizontal meets the vertical though. ?
    At the moment I`m still thinking it through, basically wondering whether this rigid design is the way to go or whether it should be able to pivot and at the same time being adjustable.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  13. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Chris,
    Gary`s design is following the right path, but as I said above I`m having reservations about the rigid fitting.
    I need to do some more testing.........just this instant I have thought of a possible solution to solve this, however as I said before....testing first.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    2,562
    Likes Received:
    2,528
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    West hill wagon works - worth a look. They use Magnetic couplings
     
  15. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Andy,
    Yes I`ve seen their couplings, but I find them a bit on the heavy side visually.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  16. Sol

    Sol Full Member

    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    113
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    That seems OK Gormo for coaches as they are relatively heavy, try them on empty bolster wagons...
    Just thinking ( & it didn't hurt) what if you used a Kadee mounting box with the bronze spring inside to give the swivelling action ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  17. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    4,538
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Sol,
    Empty bolster wagons won`t work Sol......they are too light.
    I`m in the process of a re-think and trying to keep it simple so the Kadee boxes defeats the purpose really.
    More as it happens
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  18. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I actually mentioned to Gormo today about having a length of spring wire form the centre of the bogies mounting pin to the coupler end then loosely mounting the adaption so it can swing left and right but always return to centre. Something along the line of this :


    Cheers, Gary.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    2,562
    Likes Received:
    2,528
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Why is the coupling on the bogie? The real things are on the buffer beam which is on the coach..?

    is this down to over scale tight curves?
     
  20. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Why then does Hornby, Bacmann & Dapol use a coupling on the bogie ?? Take a look at Gormo's video in post #9....

    Cheers, Gary.
     

Share This Page