Dark green engine in the land of madder lake

Discussion in 'Historic & Abandoned Railways' started by Mr Porter, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Mr Porter

    Mr Porter Failure is always an option. Full Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    106
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    This relates to comments made York Paul's Mickey Mouse tank build. I've not found the photo that Paul refers to of an 4-4-0 at Leek station but here's a link to one of a Dean Goods at Leek. This engine was withdrawn in July 1948.

    http://ns-railway.co.uk/historical pictures/leek/P-0538.htm

    The photo is copyright North Staffordshire Railway Company (1978) LTD.

    Just as an aside, does anybody know how copyright is worked out on a pre 1978 (new copyright law) photo which has been passed on from one person to another to another.

    Cheers

    :headbanger:

    Jim
     
    jakesdad13 and York Paul like this.
  2. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    This photograph was most defiantly taken by the late Gordon Walwyn of Nabb Hill Leek and latterly of Basford Bridge Lane Cheddleton and I suspect form part of that collection which passed to the NSRC upon his death, most if not all of those post Grouping images are by Gordon. As for the ownership of intellectual property rights under copywrite laws it states that copywrite is not hereditary and cannot be passed on, so in effect legal ownership ceases after a seventy year period of time from the taking of the picture and / or the death of the artist. So I'd argue copywrite has now expired since much of Gordon's early workdates back to the 1930's and the NSR watermark is a recent addition to protect the museum collection from unauthorised cloning. As a said some of Gordon's work was gifted to the NSRC who are now the legal custodians. As I spoke with Mr Porter earlier today Gordon had folders full of black and white pictures dating back to the Churnet, Cauldon and Leek lines in the 1930's he also had pictures of Rudyard station, Cheddleton station in its heyday but I have not seen this stuff published as far as I know. He lent a lot of pictures to Robert Keys who produced the small book The Churnet Valley Railway back in the 1970's and some of those images have found their way into NSRC custodianship. The GW 4-4-0 loco I saw a photo of shown to be by Gordon once may not have ever been published, I remember it as different but not unusual because I recall another conversation once long ago with the late ex Cheadle Mayor Mr Alf Malkin who said he had seen GWR locos working specials into and out of Leek, he also told me he saw the NSR New L class loco NSR number 1 coming out of the Birchall Tunnel in ex works condition and M Class tanks were regular performers on the Churnet. I suspect there are a lot of pictures of the day which have never been published and are probably now lost forever.
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  3. Gary

    Gary Will the real Gary please stand up... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    5,429
    Likes Received:
    1,376
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  4. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    I think many of the ones on the website came a few years ago in a bulk donation from Basil Judah. (I may be wrong)
     
    jakesdad13 and York Paul like this.
  5. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Do you know, the number of times I’ve looked and never noticed.
    Maybe Paul knows more here... I seem to think from other picture I’ve seen the standard M&H box type 2 was the latter
    Was there a type 1 here to? They do look different or is the porch is no longer present (like LJB box porch)
     
    jakesdad13 and York Paul like this.
  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    You could well be correct Andy but I do know Basil also sold a large bulk of his collection because when I asked about ground plans for Elton Crossing via the NSRSG a reply came back from Basil via a member saying he had sold the plan along with a lot of other stuff a few years previously. Luckily and quite by chance I recently managed to acquire a redrawn original by the LMS Estates Department from an antiquarian seller, I have copies here to post to you Andy. I did wonder if some of the other early Walwyn pictures had also come via Brian Morris, I know Brian acquired the two pictures of the passenger derailment on Bridge 30 at Oakamoor in 1929 and these are or were part of his private collection and published in Volume 2 North Staffordshire Railway in LMS Days, B Jeuda, P.85; Lightmoor Press: 2012. Those two pictures were Press recordings and not taken by Gordon. As I said I suspect there is still quite a bulk of unpublished historical photographs and artifacts and probably a whole lot more which are now lost, by that I refer to the pictures and share stock owned by the late Annie Bloor of Cromwell Terrace Leek recording the opening of the L&MVLR and the celebration decorating of Waterhouses for the event. Annie's parents lived in Grindon then and were shareholders and when I knew Annie in the mid 1980;s she kept all this material in a tin box in her living room cupboard. Off topic I know but interesting and proves my point about lost artifacts.
     
    jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Regarding an explanation for the two different signal boxes at Leek we need to understand the situation and reasoning of the day which involved modifications and expansion of the station brough upon by an upturn in traffic flows. In 1905 the Cauldon line had just been opened with the north and south curves at Leekbrook allowing direct access from the Churnet and Stoke lines, this drew in large new agricultural traffic flows and milk traffic from Ecton creamery which needed to be sorted somewhere and the five Park Sidings located in the Leekbrook triangle were to prove insufficient for the job. Now Leek at one time had an engine shed which was located next to the Shunting bridge at the south end and neck of the station, this shed shut in 1905 when a larger replacement was built on land at the North curve, this relocation was made possible because engine water was extracted via settlement tanks located at the Egg Well up on Morridge Top near Bradnop village, deep buried pipes ran beneath the formation bed of the Cauldon branch all the way from Apesford to feed the new column and tank at Leekbrook. In 1913 the disused Leek engine shed was demolished and the Shunting bridge widened to incorporate a longer shunting neck and in 1914 further expansion to the Down side Coal Yard saw extra sidings added in the canal basin with a grain store and an unloading facility for coal to the gas works which was fed by an underground conveyor system passing under the A52 Newcastle Road. The original Leek signal box was replaced in 1914 with the new Type 2 wooden composite cabin to the final NSR design incorporated a new 40 lever McKenzie & Holland Tee bar frame, this lever frame also included a midway release lock controlling the station ground frame located underneath the Newcastle Road bridge, a gong lever was also part of this new infrastructure, the ground frame controlled a new northern crossover road at the end of the extended platforms. The old box dating from 1872 and identical to the one at Leekbrook was swept away, certainly I never found any trace of its foundation existence in the ground when I photographed the station after closure in 1970 so it proves just how much information can be gleaned from photographs. I also suspect the earlier photo that Gary posted that link to the station in 1905 is actually another Press publicity picture describing the upturn in traffic following the opening of the Cauldon branch... note just how full all the sidings are. Another interesting aspect is look how the station building roof and canopy profile has changed too from another 1905 publicity shot, gone is the tiled canopy (in itself a modification from the original 1848 building) and separate porters room and in comes the new and enlarged sloping canopy with vaulted glass atrium and a re roofed and altered booking office with general waiting room in place of the old porter cabin.
     
    jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  8. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    I’ve not seen Brian for a number of years now, but mum and Dad saw him over Christmas when he came down to Cheddleton station. We’ve not seen much of him since Liz passed away about 2 years ago.
    I remember when he once did for me a
    magic Lantern show when I did the model railway exhibition for the 100th anniversary of the L&M - he brought the Leek and Manifold slides which were on glass plates, although the lantern itself was actually electric bulb illuminated not paraffin. (2004)
     
    jakesdad13 and York Paul like this.
  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Goodness I didn't know Liz had passed away, Brian was always a kindly and gently spoken man who used to be the MD of Halle Models, on a visit once to their home up by the church Liz made me the nicest cup of coffee from ground beans I'd ever tasted, Euan Jennings another NSR stalwart lived opposite Brian on the brow of the lane. Euan had some Knotty memorabilia but he didn't have the cast tread plates from the signalbox or the enamel BR maroon No Smoking sign from the goods warehouse at Leek. :avatar:
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Andy_Sollis and jakesdad13 like this.

Share This Page