Drummond HR 13.5 ton 4 wheel brake van

Discussion in 'Kits, Kit bashes & Scratch builds' started by paul_l, Apr 28, 2024.

  1. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    A wee bit of free time this weekend, and as a break from painting wagons and while taking stock of my stock, I realised I only have 1 built HR brake van. I do have a coupled of Pete Armstrong's 6 wheel body etchings, but they will require a lot of work to source / create all the parts, and my layout is commited to the Coupar exhibition in July.

    So I thought lets stick to what I'm familiar with - 4 wheel wagons.
    In Peter Tatlows HR Carriages and wagons book there are drawings for 3 wheel brake vans. HR Dia 24, 26 &39.

    Dia 26 is Drummonds 4 wheel 9ft wheel base 13.5 ton based on Caley designs. The HR had been using 6 wheel brake vans for some time. However to save money Drummond went the tried and tested smaller lighter Caley design he was familiar with. These were not popular with Guards, cramped conditions, side duckets and no birdcage. More importantly, Drummond found out that heavy trains and steep slopes needed the heavier 6 wheel designs he was replacing with these vans.

    So here is my attempt so far

    upload_2024-4-28_15-7-31.png

    The foot boards I've tried to reinforce

    upload_2024-4-28_15-10-59.png

    And intend to use 0.6mm brass wire

    upload_2024-4-28_15-13-11.png

    The wires will be glued into pockets in the step boards, with soldered joints to connect the vertical and horizontal wires.

    Braking will be fun as I've never done a wagon with more than 2 shoes per wagon let alone two per wheel.

    Brake wheel, internal seats and stove will also be modelled.

    upload_2024-4-28_15-20-17.png

    Slots are on the inner wall for the partitions to slide into place

    upload_2024-4-28_15-21-44.png

    I will see if I can fit tecesses into the ends and partitions to take microscope slide covers to act as glazing.

    Paul
     
  2. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Two shoes per wheel isn't going to be a problem for someone of your experience. More importantly I'm following how you solve the footboard problems I have never found a solution I am happy with so it, crack on mate I am following as close as I can.
     
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  3. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    So that the bracket doesn't look too heavy I've sunk it into the sole bar

    upload_2024-4-28_19-18-24.png

    upload_2024-4-28_19-19-33.png

    I will need to check if I have clearance for the leaf springs

    upload_2024-4-28_19-20-48.png

    And if it will print - maybe very slow lift speeds and lots of supports

    Paul
     
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  4. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Paul

    Clearing the leaf spring is always my problem, I tend to draw solebars 2mm thick an leaf springs 2mm wide guess what happens!
    I've also tried cutting a half circle in the front of the solebar and burying the other half behind a mounting plate, I found the mount plate shears off easily as its just thin for a clumsy old codger like me.

    The latest approach is to create a small box behind the solebar and pass the supports right across the solebar, you can see one in the bottom right corner of this screen grab of the Shildon van chassis, but I'm not modelling for anyone but myself!

    for Paul.jpg
     
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  5. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Cutouts made for slide glass covers - 18 x 18 x 0.2 mm glass. Apertures cut at 19 x 23 x 0.5 mm to allow insertion from the top.

    upload_2024-4-28_19-57-52.png

    upload_2024-4-28_19-58-51.png

    I will use liquid glazing for the ducket windows.
     
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  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Mossy, I'm hoping this works, otherwise I may need to learn how to make etches.
    Although, if this does work, it's a double edged sword, as each side will use 20 pieces of wire.
    If it prints, then it maybe trying different wire types, Brass, Nicel Silver, Steel or even piano wire.
    As I haven't needed sprining on the chassis (yet), then I could cop out and make it part of the W iron, face I could make the W iron, Leaf spring and axlebox all one unit.
    I know I still have the cutout for the axleboxes, I just worry how much weaker that will make the assembly for printing.
     
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  7. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    A little more progress - door handles

    upload_2024-4-29_0-20-20.png

    upload_2024-4-29_0-21-1.png
     
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  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    And of course a stove

    upload_2024-4-29_2-2-59.png

    upload_2024-4-29_2-6-54.png

    Suppose I'd better give them seats as well, oh and a set of brake handles :facepalm: :avatar:
     
  9. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hand brake assembly

    upload_2024-4-29_14-56-13.png

    and with the wall fitted

    upload_2024-4-29_14-57-21.png

    Pity these wern't built with glass roofs, as you might be able to see this. :facepalm:
     
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  10. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    My brain hurts

    upload_2024-5-1_0-43-22.png

    Although I may need to leaf springs as I may have made them too thin to see the individual leafs

    upload_2024-5-1_0-45-20.png

    Now these didn't cause the brain ache, I started on the brakes
    upload_2024-5-1_0-47-44.png


    All the bits move - for the moment, super glue or paint will fix that.

    upload_2024-5-1_0-57-9.png

    The base brakets locate over the W iron bracket and allow adjustment to center the brakes over the wheel tread.

    Now just got to work out the rest of it, not too many clues on the drawing.

    John Duffy has been doing some research and there doesn't appear to be many differences between the HR version and the CR it was based on.

    Even luckier for me the HR versions were built by RY Pickering, so I have already created the builders plate.

    Time for a lie down.

    Paul
     
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  11. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Almost ready for a test print

    upload_2024-5-9_0-20-15.png

    Just need to add seats in the duckets and a pair of storage lockers in each vestibule.
     
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  12. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I cant believe neither Mossy or yourself have put any of your designs for the animation option in Fusion and had a go at animating your models brakes?

    I once did it with a lever frame for Leek signal box, but I had issues with not being able to solve the camera rotation all the time, so as each lever pulled it changed camera position. Sometimes you want it to remain the same
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2024
  13. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hey - I have enough issues getting the designs out of my head and into a format that both fusion and I can understand - there's too many grinding gears in my head already.

    Test print ready to go, hopefully printed by midnight

    upload_2024-5-9_17-12-53.png
     
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  14. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    6h50m to print. Print looks good, so good I've started a second print.

    Still need to create the two lockers - one in each vestibule and the two inclined seats in the duckets.
    Oh and buffers

    While all this printing was taking place I modified the HR van into the CR van it was based on

    upload_2024-5-10_1-47-12.png

    Needs CR Axle boxes and buffers

    Paul
     
  15. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    A few pics

    I have printed the hand rails


    Worked fine for the sides, but on the ends I will have to add more brackets or replace with bent wire.


    The footboards - due to the delicate nature I printed 2 per side


    One center support failed, but was ok on the second print

    Stove and handbrake coloum


    Axlebox, brake rods and blurry at the rear the A frames for the brakes.


    The floor underside with a test fit of the brake actuator and pivot support


    They have been cured, progress over the weekend will be slow as we (DMRC) are at the Glenrothes MRC show.

    Paul
     
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  16. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I wish my prints looked as neat as yours and mossy’s

    I wonder if I have my exposure wrong?
     
  17. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
     
  18. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Andy

    Try the RERF test exposures - I use the 5mm cube measurement to give the first test exposure, and if ghoosing between two similar test resuts will try the under exposed result first. This tends to print finer detail than over exposing, but may need raise lower speeds and heights tweaking to stop fails.

    Paul
     
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  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, it may be due an update - Not sure what the 5MM cube is ? I have the little boards with the spikes and table and angle panels on ? trouble is, no one actually says what you need to look for, so I have no idea if what looked best to me was actually the correct settings to be used.
     
  20. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Thats the one,

    One side has a Hexagon , a cube and a Sphere.
    The cube has a number 5 on the top surface, measure across the number 5 that should be 5.0mm, pick the exposure time that gives 5mm. If you have more than one exposure that gives 5mm then pick which gives the better result for all the other bits. For me I need the dimentional accuracy to be correct, then will pick the result with the lower exposure as that will normally print finer detail, overexposure will make the finer detail thicker. There is a risk of the print not sticking, but that is a different issue :facepalm:

    Paul
     
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