Episode 60 17 Magnetic Uncoupling with Delayed Capability

Discussion in 'The Collection' started by gormo, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Folks,

    Here we have an update and progress report I guess on my experiments with magnetic uncoupling and now delayed uncoupling.

    I should point out that I have achieved delayed uncoupling in the past using a different method. It was a T Bar arrangement fitted to the front of a loco, however this new method uses a rectangular magnet instead.

    I think the use of the magnet in this way may well be the first time it has been done.????....If that`s the case, Platform 1 MRC is presenting the world premier of the idea!!!

    Anyway folks I think it is all covered in the video so I won`t waffle on anymore, there is enough waffling in the video.

    This is a crisps, popcorn and beverage episode at roughly 22 mins in length so settle in lads.

    YouTube link to video



    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  2. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,447
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    You better get a patent on that method Gormo. Excellent results for very little out lay. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    You probably have guessed that the polarity of the rectangular magnets are strongest on the very ends, not on the flat planes. ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  3. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Not sure about that Gary.????

    This group seem to have the strongest attraction on the flat faces.

    They came from Mr. Ching Chang Chong in China so maybe they are rejects.???
    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  4. ed

    ed Full Member

    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Gary wrote:
    Not sure about that Gary, the ones I bought definitely have the poles on the larger flat surfaces, which is why I couldn't get them working with Kadees.

    Interesting that you mentioned turning the magnet around (12:11) to get better attraction Gormo, wondering if that is due to the pole on the magnet on the loco being the same at the top surface of the track uncoupling magnet.

    Like poles repel?

    Could be why turning the other way round makes it work more efficiently, as you then have a magnetic field between the track magnets and the loco magnet.

    That then begs the question, are all your track uncoupling magnets all the same way up?

    Of course, I could be totally wrong.

    Either way, brilliant idea :thumbup:

    Ed
     
  5. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Ed,

    You could well be right there but I don`t have enough knowledge on the subject to say either way. All I know is that it works for whatever reason.???

    The chance of them all being of the same orientation is extremely unlikely albeit possible. I have 4 magnet sections at the moment. Two round magnet sections and two rectangular magnet sections which all give the same response when the rolling stock passes over them.?????......:scratchchin:....so mate...I still don`t get it but there you are ......it works.

    I have some pics now as the Jinty is completely set up. The magnet painted Carbon Black is not too intrusive, but then again I`m not too particular. So this is the front.

    [​IMG]

    The back end

    [​IMG]

    Close up of the coupled set up ready to pull away. Note the staple mounted to the front of the drop down bar and the separation between it and the magnet. You should be able to butt the two couplings up together without the coupling hook rising. If it rises the magnet is set too close.

    [​IMG]

    And now with the loco pushing, after the wagon has passed over the magnet in the track, which lifts the coupling into the zone where the staple on the drop down bar is now attracted to the magnet suspended below the loco coupling. If the coupling drops after going around a bend or over a point, the magnet is set too far back. More attraction is needed but not too much. Subtle adjustments are required to set it up properly.

    [​IMG]

    A new section of magnets set down this afternoon. They seem to be more effective with a gap between them......don`t know why.....they just are. If they were not glued down they would all join end to end. I have deliberately set the polarity that way so there are no conflicting fields.

    [​IMG]

    A 3mm wide strip of painted magnetic photo paper simply sits on top retained by magnetic attraction. I folded the ends down to save anything that may catch on it.

    [​IMG]

    And an example of the clearance between staple and magnetic uncoupling strip.

    [​IMG]

    By the way Ed.....apologies to you for my regular changes on this set up. I know you have followed it with interest and given it a go and maybe got frustrated with it and to top it off, I keep changing the way of setting it up. So sorry for that if you feel you have wasted some time with the previous system. All I can say is that this method is the best so far......But I won`t promise that I won`t change it.....:faint:

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  6. ed

    ed Full Member

    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    No apologies necessary Gormo, I think I must have made my staples slightly longer anyway as I haven't had the 'up and down' of the hook as the staple went over my three round magnet setup.

    They tended to stay up and the only problem is figuring out exactly where the magnet is, with a platform between where I'm sitting and the train :twitch:

    With the change of era/theme on Latton Fields, I'm not actually shunting individual wagons as it's now block trains, so only an uncoupling at the right point is required.

    I've tried Kadees on my shunting Puzzle Plank with reasonable results, so the only question for me is whether to stay with the staples/tension locks on Latton Fields, or swap to Kadees on there as well.

    Whatever I do, is a bit [​IMG]

    :avatar:

    You've created a brilliant way to have delayed uncoupling with staple/tension locks :worship:

    All you need to do now is figure out how to do it for individual wagons within a train :scratchchin:

    Ed

    (PS Gary mentioned patents. Dunno, but I have seen links to your videos via other sites in social media)
     
  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Ed
    I'm not really too fussed about patents. I'll just follow along in Brian Kirby's footsteps .
    Have you considered placing a strategic passenger or station official on your platform to indicate the mid point of the uncoupling area?
    Just a thought? ???
    http://www.click :tophat:Gormo
     
  8. ed

    ed Full Member

    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Just a case of judging where the first carriage stops in relation to the footbridge, I'll get there..........

    ...... or I could always stand up.

    Still think we might be missing something in the fact that like magnetic poles repel, regarding pushing uncoupled wagons.

    Dunno, maybe 'pie in the sky'.

    Ed
     
  9. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,949
    Likes Received:
    6,032
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    These magnets can be supplied with either the flat surfaces or the end being the magnetic poles.

    The 22 x 11 x 3 have the flats as the poles.

    Paul
     
  10. Barnaby

    Barnaby Full Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Hello Gormo.
    Fixing a magnet under the latch part of the coupling seems like a brilliant

    idea and one I'll do some investigating on.
    I use a variant of the Kirby T/L system but I use a piece of paper clip which
    is glued to the vertical part of the hook and protrudes back towards the axel.
    I have made a small eye on the free end to which I attach 2 or 3 links with the
    bottom one being iron for magnetic attraction purposes.

    It works well but I have been considering how best to make repeatability an
    easy peasy action for making them. Presently I make everything to the first
    masters I made but it is a bit fiddly.
    Your recent Vids have given me something to think about.

    I also have been looking at making the system able to perform "delayed
    uncoupling" your magnetic idea fitted under the coupling of the loco looks
    a winner.

    One way I have been having a little play with requires quite a bit of accuracy
    when setting up but then it does work.
    It works like this:- a small piece of wire is attached to the coupling area or
    engine front vertically and a 90D horizontal bend is made. This bend needs to
    position the wire so that it cuts across the raised hook and be far enough
    forward of the coupling buffer plate to hold the raised hook up. Then when
    positioned you move away and the hook drops down.

    It's not very noticeable when fitted but your system seems more flexible in its
    operation as you have to do the Kirby shuffle to raise the hook then close the
    loco up to keep it up while positioning the wagon.

    I only use one shirt button rare earth magnet at each location but they never
    fail to work. They sit in the track middle between the sleepers as they are the
    same height as them and when ballasted they disappear.

    When I get a few mins I try to set up your remote coupling method.

    Regards
    Not sure what's going on with the line spacing here?

    another go at editing my first post
     
  11. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Paul,

    That sorts out the mystery of magnetic poles.:handshake:

    Barnaby that was an interesting read. I like the chain link attached to the paper clip idea.

    I think I may have tried a version of your bar on the loco coupler to achieve delayed uncoupling. I did it with a T bar arrangement. The T bar was created by placing two staples back to back and soldering them together to form a capitol " I " for want of a better description. One end was kept as a T shape whilst the other end was formed into a V and spread either side of the coupling retaining screw under the front of the loco.

    I have an old video which will show it working.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0nvME8dnw



    It`s nice to see people playing around with these ideas and trying to crack the ultimate set up.

    One day it will happen.!!!

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  12. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,324
    Likes Received:
    546
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Just got round to watching the latest video instalment
    Another quality Gormo engineering dept solution:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    http://www.click
     
  13. Barnaby

    Barnaby Full Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Yes Gormo that's very similar to what I tried but I found setting up the cross bar height to catch the hook too much of a faff.
    I'm definitely going to give your magnet delay latch a go as that looks very good. Because I'm in 0 gauge I use paper clips wire on the hooks and I mount them by making a tight 180D bend and grip them onto the hook vertical tail and dab a touch of super-glue to hold.
    This makes the180D bend protrude making it nearer to the engine delay magnet. Testing your idea again this morning showed that the chain drop kept trying to swing up towards the loco magnet which looks a bit odd. I need to play a bit more to see if it is too in your face. It will be no big deal if I have to drop the 3-links in favour of a reliable delayed coupling operation. I could just make them all brass as that will get rid of the magnetic attraction while retaining the 3-links.
    Food for thought.

    Good stuff Gormo

    Best
     
  14. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Sounds like a plan Barnaby....:thumbs:
    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  15. StevePower

    StevePower Full Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    49
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Gormo that is a great video and I am quite hooked on the staple idea.
    A very cheap way of making a very effective uncoupling device.
    Of course that idea is going on the long list of things to do.
    Thanks for taking time to post it.
    Cheers Steve
     
  16. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    No worries Steve.....thanks.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  17. Beetleton MPD

    Beetleton MPD Full Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2017
    I would be interested to hear if anyone has had experience with using Gormo's techniques with old Hornby/Mainlaine/Bachmann H&B metallic dropper couplings or will I have to fit plastic couplings say 36 - 025 Short Couplings.:confused:
     
  18. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    G`day Beetleton,

    The method could be adapted to other couplings as long as they are NON Magnetic.

    The old Hornby and Lima couplings are attracted to a magnet as far as I remember, so therefore would not work.

    Plastic couplings should work with the staple glued to the dropper.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  19. Beetleton MPD

    Beetleton MPD Full Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2017
    gormo wrote:
    Thanks for the quick reply, Gormo! I shall press on with my plastic couplers using your 'staple fixing jig' and then persue how best I can modify the old metal couplers, perhaps using Bachmann 36-026 Short Coupling.
    As an aside, my Spratt & Winkle couplings operate quite satisfactorily using the 3 off 30mm x 10mm x 1mm neodymium magnets under the sleepers that I setup on my test track for the Brian Kirby style modified couplers. Thank you.:)
     
  20. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,141
    Likes Received:
    4,440
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    No worries Beetleton,

    Good luck with it all.

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     

Share This Page