Great Chesterford Junction Part Two

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by gormo, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Yep!!!.....that`s me too Pete.........I have not bought wire for many years, but why buy it if you can recover it from the wide variety of leads that we tend to have in our homes these days.
    Today I needed some more fine stuff to finish off the sensors in the back shed, so I stripped down some 4 pair Ethernet cable.....perfect....it was old cable.....no longer required for it`s intended purpose, so why not..???
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  2. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Just an update folks,
    As I mentioned to Pete above, I have finished off wiring the back shed today.
    The sensors ......all twelve of them over two rooms are now fully wired and have had repeated testing, so they are ready to go.
    I now have to focus on building the panels to suit them.
    I have plenty of old timber.....drawer sides etc...which will be suitable if I can come up with a formula that works.?.....and I also have a sheet of clear plastic that ,hopefully, will act as a backing for the front schematics.
    I normally would use 3mm MDF for this purpose, however I want to illuminate these panels from within. The plan is that it will be barely visible in daylight, however when the room is darkened for night time running, the panels will be illuminated like an EXIT sign.
    It`s not entirely necessary, but I just thought it would be a nice touch......anyway that`s the plan at this stage......I can`t see why it shouldn`t work....so there you are.!
    The schematics are printed out. I will laminate them after finishing this post and then tomorrow we press on.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  3. Chris M

    Chris M If 2 wrongs don't make it right ... try 3 Full Member

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    Hey Gormo,

    As you said this is a good implementation of the KISS principle. It has also been interesting to watch how you have refined things as you went along. It will be interesting to see how the visual aspect works out on your indicator panels.

    You mentioned that the sensor rods needed to be dead straight. I would have thought that they could still work on a broad (or even tigher) curve if the rods were curved accurately around the track centreline and held in centre with the staples. Have you tried curved sensors? I see also that your sensor rods seem to be getting much longer ... have you found a length limit yet?
    All-in-all it looks like another Gormo Engineering triumph ... :thumbs:

    Chris
     
  4. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Chris,
    When I mentioned the rods being dead straight, I meant in respect of how they sit on the sleepers. They have to sit absolutely flat on the sleepers along the whole length of the sensor, otherwise they will kick up at one end and touch the staple and set off the LED.
    I have slightly curved four of them now and it works quite well. Not sure what the limit is with curving them as I`ve only done gentle curves at this stage.
    The sensors I am using for this project are each 300mm long with staples spaced at 150mm. I would hazard a guess and say that on straight track, the length could be as long as you like.?.....which would then turn the sensor into a track occupation system.
    Track occupation would require some serious testing, as I suspect prolonged activation with a magnet, may impart some magnetic characteristics to the sensor and therefore affect it`s reliability, in that it may fail to release once the loco has moved on.???
    I`m not sure about that side of things at this stage.........but it may be worth some long term testing on a test track.
    I should also mention, that this system is really only worth doing on hidden track, as it is a bit too much in your face for the scenic side of operations.
    Out of sight out of mind as they say.
    Stay safe
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  5. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    I did a bit of finishing off things with wiring today and then moved onto the panel build.
    I have no definite plan at the moment, however it is starting to fall into place as I assemble the materials and experiment with some of them.
    You need to know the limitations of some materials and I was not absolutely sure that the plastic I intend to use would not shatter once I started drilling holes in it.
    Well it didn`t, so that`s a step forward.
    At the moment I have the schematics cut out and holes punched for the LED`s


    DSC01436.JPG


    I used the schematics as a template then to drill the holes in the plastic backing. This plastic used to be a flat magnifying sheet that you could lay over a page or a book.


    DSC01437.JPG


    Test gluing an LED is some left over scrap from the plastic. I am using the ultra violet 5 second fix


    DSC01438.JPG


    I pulled down some old timber drawer sides from my storage section. These will be for the cabinets. There`s way more than I need but I still have to work out the final design.


    DSC01439.JPG


    And some Toggle Bolts to fix the cabinets to the walls


    DSC01440.JPG

    I hope to work out the cabinet design tonight. It has to allow access to the back of the front panels and it has to accommodate the wiring in a fairly neat and tidy fashion.
    If the internal wiring is a jumble of spaghetti, it will cast shadows on the front panel from the internal lighting.......so it needs some thought...:scratchchin:

    More to follow
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  6. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    I managed to cut out the panels for the cabinets today.....and what a beautiful day to be outside. I always work with my equipment outdoors when doing this kind of work to avoid breathing in the dust and also to avoid making a total mess in the work shop. The shavings and sawdust are caught on a drop sheet I place under the equipment and then they are eventually placed about the garden beds as a sort of mulch.
    So as a result there is no mess, I am protected and the garden kicks a goal as well........the neighbors probably don`t like the noise, but it`s daylight hours so they can go and jump.......i don`t use this equipment much at all.......maybe twice a year.??....I reckon that`s fair enough.
    Anyway....where was I before we ventured outdoors...???
    Ah yes...the panels for the cabinets.
    My starting point for measurements was the front panels / schematics as everything starts from there in this build. So starting with accurate measurements of the front panels, it was just a matter of deciding how the box was going to be assembled and take it from there.
    The first part of the process was to put the timber through my Thicknesser. This will give me true pieces of timber to work with, and will also remove any blemishes that time and storage has bestowed on them.
    The timbers originally were measuring 11mm thick, so I brought them down to 10mm by planing both sides and they came up very nice indeed.....they should polish up well also.:thumbup:
    One thing that has to be factored into the measurements, is an allowance for the depth of the rebates that will be cut into the timber to accept the front panels. They are meant to just slot in and be easily removable. So I arrived at a depth of 3mm for the rebates.
    Here are the parts for two cabinets cut out and ready to move forward with the process.


    DSC01441.JPG


    Rebates were all cut against a fence set on the saw at 5mm from the front edge. Repetition cutting ensures accuracy.


    DSC01442.JPG


    Here we have a test fit. The cabinet is just held with a clamp , but so far so good.


    DSC01443.JPG



    DSC01444.JPG


    And the back is made from the same timber


    DSC01446.JPG


    Two cabinets clamped for test fit and display


    DSC01448.JPG



    DSC01449.JPG

    The plan for the build is to have one end of each cabinet removable in case we need to get inside in the future for maintenance. The front panel will then be able to slide out. The front panel will have an umbilical cord of wiring which will have a 15 pin connector that is also removable.
    I am still waiting on some parts to arrive in the post, but in the meantime I will push on with assembling the cabinets and polishing them to suit the rest of the railway.
    More as it happens
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    The cabinets have been assembled and varnished today and need to dry overnight before rubbing back and application of the second coat tomorrow.
    In the meantime I`ve turned my attention towards wiring the LEDs and fitting them to the front panels.
    I have only one panel done at this stage , but the pics will give you an idea of how it`s coming along.
    I`ve used M5 Nylock nuts as mounts for the LEDs on the back of the clear plastic. The nut faces are Super-glued to the plastic sheet and the LEds are a push fit into the nuts.


    IMG20210903161814.jpg

    The schematic has been glued to the front of the plastic panel and here below is an example of how it may look when working on the railway.


    IMG20210903161949.jpg


    All Leds are tested after each has it`s appropriate resistor and wires soldered to it........better to find faults at this stage rather than later on through the process.
    Oh well, bit by bit we`re getting there, and the light is just starting to show way off at the end of the tunnel.

    :tophat:Gormo
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
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  8. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    The second front panel has been wired up today.
    The process has been made easier with the use of these " helping hands "..... a tool I`ve had for many years. You can see the little alligator clips hold the parts exactly where you want them for soldering. If you don`t have this accessory in your tool box, I highly recommend you get one.


    IMG20210904133246.jpg


    Here we have six LEDs wired, tested and ready for installation on the panel


    IMG20210904134609.jpg


    The Nyloc nuts (M5 ) were Super-glued to the clear plastic prior to the LEDs being pushed into them.


    IMG20210904135022.jpg


    Here are the two boxes sporting their second coat of stain varnish......one more coat to go.


    IMG20210904161757.jpg


    IMG20210904161822.jpg

    And I`ve started feeding in the wires from the workshop.......a lot more work required here, but it`s coming along nicely.

    IMG20210904161812.jpg

    I still need a couple of wires for a power feed to come in through this wall as well, but that`s a job for another day.
    More as it happens
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  9. Graham K

    Graham K Full Member

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    Although I'm unlikely to ever have a layout large enough to be in need of such a system, it's been yet another fascinating watch and read Gormo :thumbup:
     
  10. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Graham.........glad you enjoyed it....:thumbs:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  11. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    I pressed on today with wiring the first panel in the train room.
    This panel shows the progress of a train through my workshop, which is now a fictional area of my railway and will remain a fiction not intended to be seen.
    So my trains travel up and down the Southwall Incline, Midway Bank and Camden Bridge areas to reach their actual destinations in the train room.
    First thing to do after all wire feeds had been put through the wall, was to fit the box to the wall. This was achieved with two toggle bolts as mentioned in an earlier post.


    IMG20210906095125.jpg


    The fifteen pin connectors, male and female, were wired / fitted to the front panel and the inside back of the box respectively.


    IMG20210906115223.jpg


    This jumble below contains a fifteen pin connector and a switch for the internal lighting


    IMG20210906115231.jpg


    Here we have the internal wires and fittings sorted and also some LED strip ( 3 LEDs ) fitted up behind the small strip of wood up under the top of the box.


    IMG20210906155542.jpg


    Testing the internal lighting system


    IMG20210906155612.jpg


    The front panel was then connected electrically and slid into place from the right hand side. The right hand end is removable.


    IMG20210906160850.jpg


    The internal light switch is accessed from underneath the box........it just makes it easier to reach.


    DSC01464.JPG


    A side view.


    DSC01463.JPG

    As seen from the other end of the room. It`s easier to see with the naked eye.

    DSC01461.JPG


    And this is how it looks when set for night time running


    IMG20210906161102.jpg

    Well it`s fully tested and working and there is a short video below to show this.



    Another one to fit tomorrow or the day after and we`re done...:thumbs:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  12. Graham K

    Graham K Full Member

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    Just the right degree of suspense and intrigue waiting for each indicator to light :thumbup:
     
  13. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Dear Gormo,

    1 / your track indication panel boxes have come up a treat, and I particularly like the internal back lighting, very effective when the fluoros are off. Nice graphics as well.

    2 / as an aside, on the prototype, the early track indication panels were white paper with illuminated track blocks. In this instance, the track indication lights were on, being extinguished for the passage of a train, which showed up black.

    Subsequently, Black or Dark Green, or Olive Green seemed to be preferred. These Panels used miniature globes to illuminate perspex strips. The lights were normally off, then illuminated for the passage of a train.

    Subsequently, Cream, or Light Blue, was favoured, and by which time LEDs had replaced miniature globes. In my experience I was not a fan of light blue, as I found it difficult to see the illuminated lights on a bright summers day ( not uncommon in Australia ! )

    These later Panels were either a Composition Board ( whose name I have now forgotten ! ) or Plastic.

    With the introduction of VDUs / Visual Display Units, which were originally TV style Cathode Ray Units, though with a much higher resolution, Black was the background, with coloured lines ( Grey, for unoccupied; Green, for Normal Speed routes, and Yellow, for Low Speed routes, such as sidings ) Later on, these were replaced with Solid State screens, with an even higher resolution, and larger size. Nowadays you can choose your background colour, with Grey being a popular choice, in which case the unoccupied tracks are Black.

    3 / however, after looking at your video I now understand the earlier comment regarding capacitors to increase the delay to keep the LED track indication lights on.

    4 / Therefore may I suggest that you consider retrofitting the capacitors ?

    The reason I say this is that the current mode of operation is intermittent, which may be ok if the train is moving, but if the train stalls, you have NO indication that your track is occupied, which I presume was one of the reasons for the design in the first place.

    In my opinion there is the possibility , that while operating the railway with other people, by implication you will, likely as not, will NOT be looking at the train indicator panel continuously, therefore the possibility arises that the presence of a stalled train on the single line section will not be realised, and therefore the risk of a collision will increase.

    5 / I appreciate that an earlier concern was the possibility of the lifting detector rod becoming magnetised, and therefore remaining attached the staples, and therefore giving a false indication that the single line section is occupied when it is not. ( A Failed Safe condition ! )

    A possible solution is to increase the weight on the lifting rod ends sufficient to prevent magnetised sticking, but insufficient to prevent the system working as intended.

    It may, for instance, be possible to have a bit of wire of a similar dimension attached to each end to increase the lifting rod weight sufficiently to overcome the magnetised sticking.

    6 / just a thought,

    Best wishes and regards, Echidna.
     
  14. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Graham,
    Yes well that`s the thing you see......if it doesn`t light or if one of the indicators stays lit and no train appears, we have a problem.....:scratchchin:
    Hopefully we won`t have problems, but who among us run their trains and never have a problem......ever.....????????
    :avatar:
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  15. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Echidna,
    Thank you for your input and your knowledge of how the real thing operates.
    First hand knowledge and experience is a thing to be valued and I do appreciate your detailed replies.
    I feel I learn something new each time you reply
    It makes me think I should have researched this subject, however in this case I had an idea and I just went for it.......sometimes that happens with me....:avatar:
    Anyway......I am pleased with how it`s turned out.........it may not be prototypical, but the status of a train in the hidden areas is conveyed to the operators in a simple way that I think will work out OK in the end.
    The hidden runs are not long by any means and so a glance at the indicator board will be enough to confirm that a train is on the move. No flashing lights or indeed, a light permanently lit, will highlight a problem in a very simple way I feel.
    Used in combination with the block instruments, I think this will make for some fun operating, and also now with the indicator panels operational, it will take some of the guess work out of operating the branch
    The detector rod being magnetized was overcome with a heavier gauge rod and that no longer is a problem. You can have a loco sit over the sensor for quite some time now and no magnetism seems to be transferred to the sensor........so that`s all sorted.
    Hoping all is well at your end
    Stay safe
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  16. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Folks,
    The second panel was fitted and extensively tested today, so that`s another project finished.


    IMG20210907162952.jpg

    I set it at the same height off the floor ( 1.9 mtrs ) as the other indicator panel. The ceiling at this end of the room slopes, so mounting at the same height off the floor keeps things consistent.


    IMG20210907163042.jpg

    And of course it`s set up for night time running like the other one.

    IMG20210907163231.jpg

    And now for something completely different to work on...?????:scratchchin:

    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  17. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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  18. Chris M

    Chris M If 2 wrongs don't make it right ... try 3 Full Member

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    Hey Gormo,

    I haven't been on Platform 1 for a few days but your rate of progress has been really amazing. At this rate (and if the Sydney lockdown continues) you may end up taking over running the whole Sydney rail network from Gormo's Shed.

    Nice one ..... :cheers: :thumbs: :cheers: :hammer:

    Chris
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  19. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Yeah no worries Chris.......bring it on mate.....I`ll run it if they need me too.......might need a hand though...:scratchchin:
    I reckon it would take at least two or three railway modellers to run it properly.....:avatar:
    Lock down persists. I checked my Google Time Line yesterday and it shows the last time I left my home was the 18th August.....that was a trip to the Chemist.
    We are both fully vaccinated, so we just have to ride out the lock down before we can venture out again........even then we will have to be cautious......anyway....it is what it is.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  20. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Well folks,
    Scenic work has re-commenced on Little Bardfield and the push is on to make some significant advancements.
    At the moment, the station building has been painted and platform fencing is drying as we speak. The fencing has been given the GWR cream livery. There are two different brands of fencing, however when all painted the same colour, it will all look as though it`s supposed to be there.


    IMG20210910155659.jpg

    I have created some station name boards and they are mounted on card and they will have small rivets as posts. They are done in a Black and White colour scheme and are drying as well.
    So lots to do and I will update as we progress.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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