Hornby Locomotive Die Casting

Discussion in 'Hornby RTR' started by Richard, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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  2. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I've heard about this problem with the T9, but as yet, my own T9 appears unaffected. There have been cases of Mazak failure with other models of Hornby stuff before, usually manifesting itself as swollen or warped chassis, but breakage is also a problem. I'm no chemist, but I understand that the material composition of Mazak is critical, and failures due to using poor batches of the metal is not uncommon, Chinese QC being questionable both in the metal ingots
    the Chinese factory buys in as well as Hornby's designated assembly plant. There are usually plenty of T9's on Ebay, probably because of the reputation it's gained, and few want to be stuck with a 'dud', especially as Hornby don't (or won't) supply the offending problem parts. Little wonder Hornby's reputation (and share price) is fast sliding down the pan!
    Keith.
     
  3. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not familiar with the part but would it be worthwhile getting a couple 3D printed or does it have to be metal, just a thought.

    Ian vt:scratchchin:
     
  4. Sandbar

    Sandbar Full Member

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    When I was involved with G Gauge trains, there was a fellow who used to make parts to fix Bachman locos who had drive problems with gears, motors and even replacing some main drive wheels.

    He was fixing these problems with a "hobby home business" - making good pocket money but not enough to make a living from.

    I was told by reviews that his trains were become the best runners and were virtually bulletproof for years.

    Maybe there a hobbyist who may be interested in this area of loco repair?

    Andrew
    Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway
     
  5. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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    Has the issue been resolved, I have not been able to get an answer from Hornby, and over the last few years I have boycotted their Locomotive products. However with the releases of the new Peckett, Grange (to replace the failed unit) and the Wainwright Tank I have now ordered 3 of there products.
    The Peckett and H Class tank these I am confident in, but the Grange is a concern.
    Cheers
    Richard
     
  6. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    Plenty of this type of problem with crumbling chassis reported here
    http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46266&st=0&start=0

    http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28568

    http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109803-mazak-rot-arrghhh/

    are just three of many threads
     
  7. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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    Now this was interesting, I didn't know that has plagued the modelling manufacturing industry for so long.
    I have seen this type of metal failure in stainless steel, brass and copper but not in die cast (other than the locos) I'll try again with Hornby and see what happens.
    So just putting it out there how long would you expect a loco to last.
    May be the 3-D printer point is worth a look at, we have a 3-D printer that prints steel copies at work.
    Richard
     
  8. Richard

    Richard Full Member

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  9. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm presently waiting for the Hornby 'H Class' in BR livery, which according to the Hornby 'rep' I spoke to at this years GCR model event, is due in December, but I doubt I'll be buying immediately it comes out, as I'll wait and see what the verdict of others is. At present, I'm happy to create my own RTR loco's, using resin bodies and chassis taken from existing RTR stock, although these are usually loco classes that are not available as RTR anyway. In these cases, I can at least give a chassis a careful examination before utilising it in a loco build.
    Keith.
     
  10. Wolseley

    Wolseley Full Member

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    As far as the T9 is concerned, I bought one from Hattons (it's cheaper than getting one on eBay) over a year ago with the intention of converting it to a Caledonian 4-4-0 (either a Lambie 13 Class, a McIntosh Dunalastair I or a rebuilt Drummond 66 Class, whichever is dimensionally the closest) - another one of my projects that hasn't got off the ground yet.

    The locomotive appeared to be in good order and was a runner. When, however, I started to take the body off the motor to rewire the pickups* it became clear that something was amiss. Half the motor mount remained on the chassis but the other half was stuck in the boiler (it proved quite a job to get it out, as mazak rot is often accompanied by slight enlargement of the affected part).

    You can't just stick these things back together, but replacement mounts are available from Peters Spares Model Railways Ltd in Middlesbrough. I bought one, but it's one of the many things I haven't got around to doing yet, so I can't report on how easy it is to fit, although it looks like it might need a bit of attention with a file before it slots into position.

    https://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps61-replacement-hornby-t9-motor-mount.ir
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Peters-...043991?hash=item4b4e2bda57:g:-RYAAOSwjkxbklXS

    * Practically all my stock is three rail Hornby Dublo or Trix, so anything else I have has to be converted, otherwise I would need two layouts rather than one......
     
  11. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I had one of the first batch of the detailed class 31 (not the old Lima model) from Hornby. They have a metal issue under the cabs where the metal floor is, which has caused mine to swell and bust the plastic body, and also distort to the point that it’s a £90 writeoff loco. Shame as was a great runner and wanted to fit a sound chip to it.
    I may see if I can 3D print the damaged part, but it needs to be accurately copied as it has copper pick ups which wipe other copper strips under the cab interiors for the lights. - and yes, I do want the lights, that’s part of the fun of diesels.
    Andy
     
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  12. Bernie

    Bernie Full Member

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    Hi I have a Hornby R3016A Std 4 MT class ‘75071’ issued first in 2012 and still available in some retailers today. Several years ago, I purchased this model new but have not used it till now. With COVID lockdown destroying my retirement travel plans. I set up a model rail track to use the models I have collected.

    This lovely looking and well detailed loco worked for about 2 minutes before coming to a grinding halt. On dismantling the locomotive and removing the motor, I discovered that the locating lug on the gear box cover had broken from the housing, dislodged and jammed the gears. I have removed the broken pieces, and replaced the housing. The gear box layshaft is now only held in place by the weight of the worm gear on the gears, the locomotive still operates (for how long?), so the motor and gears are not damaged.

    However, examination revealed crazy cracking over both sides of the gear box housing/cover (see pictures). I understand this is called “MazRot” referred to above and in this article on the Hornby forum. https://www.hornby.com/us-en/forum/halting-mazak-rot/?p=1/ and is a manufacturing defect well documented and referenced many times over many decades. It is incredible that this issue still exists in new(ish) products today. Surely if the manufacturing process is so easy to get wrong they would have made an alternative material by now. Why would they still use a material that causes models to self destruct?
    MazRot.JPG I have written to Hornby asking for advice and parts availability. My worry is that other parts within the model may well have the same issue and decompose over time or that a replacement component may still have the same issue.
     
  13. Bernie

    Bernie Full Member

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    Good tip thanks. My std 4 75000 class part is x9978 but out of stock. Postage is also an extra cost to OZ (not worth it for small bits, so will have to see what else I need) and currently takes weeks to arrive.
     
  14. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I have seen a 'definitive' list on the internet of all the loco's from all the manufacturers (it's NOT just a 'Hornby' problem!), but unfortunately I can't recall the site, you might find it by 'Googling'. Basically, the problem is the chemical constituents of the Zinc alloy known as 'Mazak', from which the main chassis parts are often made. In these days of 'Recycling', the base alloy is sometimes made up of recycled metal which isn't as chemically 'pure' as it ought to be with the result that it has a kind of 'built-in corrosion' which may take several years to manifest itself, and this problem isn't helped by much of modern model loco's being made in China along with questionable 'Quality Control' of which Hornby in particular or rather, their chosen Chinese factory seems to have suffered rather badly from in recent years, the well known wiring/DCC socket faults being just one example. There doesn't seem to be any way around the problem, at least until and unless Hornby et al insist on more thorough metallurgical testing of base alloys before casting processes begin, the only cure really is at the source as there's nothing that can be done with duff castings except the scrap bin unfortunately.
    Keith.
     
  15. Wolseley

    Wolseley Full Member

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    Keep an eye on the cost of postage from Peters Spares. As I said in another thread earlier today:
     
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  16. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    This is a problem that has been going on for many decades. If you look at classic vehicles from the 50s and 60s, many will have cast door handles etc that are pock marked and the chrome peeling and there is nothing that can be done. It is a horrible cheap and nasty material and should have been done away with years ago.

    Pete.
     
  17. Wolseley

    Wolseley Full Member

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    The grille side surrounds on my Wolseley 15/60 have pock marking on the chrome and there are spots of it on the headlamp surrounds as well. Not ideal, but I have seen other cars that are a lot worse.

    Jim
     
  18. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    I worked with a lad several years ago who was a professional fabricator who also owned and was restoring a Rover 90. The door handles were a right mess, totally messed up, so he made his own from stainless steel, they looked fantastic and no chance of them rotting and the best part they cost him nothing as he used scrap off cuts at work in his lunch break!

    Pete.
     
  19. Wolseley

    Wolseley Full Member

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    Here you are, some non model railway mazak pitting:

    20201108_120012.jpg

    20201108_120037.jpg

    20201108_120050.jpg
     
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  20. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Add-on wing mirrors to my first car in the 1970s did just the same, spring loaded for safety but embrittlement caused them to just fall off after a few years, and even on a 10 year old car then the marks shown by Wolseley above were apparent. There is no excuse, even the original Dinky museum had early models crumble to dust, it's not new.

    Ultimately the blame lies with the design authority and it's quality control procedures, not the factory producing the goods.

    As guarantees for some railway equipment even had only 6 months cover the big manufacturers have no interest unless we stop buying. There is just as much chance of that as patriotic Americans boycotting all Chinese made goods to save their neighbours local jobs, or people not crowding to reduce the risk of passing Covid to their more vulnerable relatives.

    So we end up paying 3 figure sums in a lottery, I for one no longer subscribe to that lottery.
     
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