Lower Thames Yard

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by Tallpaul70, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Good afternoon to you all,

    I thought I would update you on my researches in sorting out the possibilities for Paddington to Maidenhead and reverse trains for the right side of Lower Thames Goods Shed, which is proving a challenge!

    The steam hauled trains in particular are complicated by a number of factors, as to be sensible for this small layout the steam trains have to be:-
    Tank Engine Hauled
    Non corridor stock
    Stopping at Maidenhead (preferably!)

    Most of the Paddington to Reading (and reverse) trains are generally ok except for one or two that since my last post I have ruled out since I found they used corridor stock.
    The longer distance trains (Paddington to Newbury/Hungerford/Frome and Paddington to Didcot/Swindon/Oxford/Banbury ) and reverse are less useful.
    Most are corridor stock, just a couple each way are non corridor, and haulage is mainly tender Locos. In addition many do not stop at Maidenhead!

    So tomorrow I am taking a look at my 1959 WTT, but to make sense of this I will need to find a Carriage Working Book for the period, hopefully from Robert Carroll's many on line volumes!

    I hope everyone is staying safe and keeping well.
    Best regards
    Paul
     
  2. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    I thought readers of this thread might like the following from today's paper:-

    "Pretentious Job Title of the Night
    McKenzie's a " Performance Ambassador" for Trans Pennine Express(!) ( my italics and exclamation mark!)
    We saw him on "The Railway 24/7" (Channel 5) helping people onto trains. It used to be a Porter's job.... but as service gets worse, titles get longer."


    I have recorded this, but have yet to watch it.
    Immediately "Train Manager" (Guard!) came to my mind but I am sure that those of you who have had the privilege (or misfortune!) to work in the industry can tell us of many more instances?

    However, getting back to my Lower Thames layouts:-
    I said yesterday that I was going to look at my 1959 WTT to help resolve my issues with Steam hauled suburban trains for Lower Thames Goods Shed.
    A quick look at this suggested that this would not help as the Class 117 Diesels seem to have been introduced with the next WTT, Winter 1959/60.
    However I thought I would look at the listings of Paddington arrivals and departures for 1955 in my copy of "Through the Links at Southall and Old Oak Common", as this might give me information about which of the outer suburban trains were hauled by 61xx.

    This proved to be a good idea, because I had not appreciated how little the train timings changed between 1955 (100% steam apart from the occasional AEC Railcar), and 1961 (Steam only in the rush hours).
    This means that a compromise I can live with is to run as steam hauled and diesel alternative suburban trains as I originally wanted. I just have to be careful not to run a 1955 steam train that had by 1961 had its time significantly altered or even the train removed. Similarly I will aim not to run as steam trains introduced for the diesel era.

    I guess the continuation of the steam timings shows a number of things:-
    1) How good at acceleration the 61xxs were with 5 coaches - comparable to one or two three car 117s.
    2) Either management didn't trust the 117s (quite likely!), or they thought passengers would prefer the habitual times (quite likely, but not I would have thought passenger preferences were not at the front of management's mind!)
    3) They wanted to avoid the trouble of recasting and introducing a new timetable. (Very likely and still a trouble today!)
    4) They had enough on their plates sorting out loco/unit/coach /staff diagrams without timetable trouble as well (highly likely!)

    So I will aim over the next day or two to post some photos of these steam trains and then next week to get back to my freight sets and post photos of some more of those.

    Hope everyone's well and staying safe?
    Take care
    Cheers
    Paul
     
    York Paul likes this.
  3. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    As a way of checking out the running of the suburban trains round the right hand side of Lower Thames Goods Yard and the High Wycombe Branch trains round the left hand side of the layout, I have drawn up a set of cardboard (cutouts? no!) rectangles to use to plot the movements into and out of the fiddle yard in Lower Thames Goods Shed, to find out if my proposed movements work.
    In doing this I realized that in my initial allocation of loop and siding space I had forgotten about the "Marlow Donkey" and the class 128 parcels Unit.

    Fortunately these proved not to be a problem but a problem I am currently wrestling with is that of locomotive running round on steam trains that arrive and turn round. The easiest solution seems to be that there needs to be one free road for this purpose.
    However, I am not sure that I can permanently free up one of the existing loops or find room to add another one for this purpose, so watch this space!

    Frantically moving cardboard rectangles around a table has diverted me from taking any passenger train photos as I promised last week I would do. So my apologies for that, but when I get fed up with the fiddle yard puzzle, I will have a break for a day or so and get the photos done.

    Promise!!!

    Meanwhile, please keep safe and enjoy your modelling.
    Best regards
    Paul
     
  4. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    I have had a good end to this week with today's arrival from Hattons of a Hornby New WR 2-6-2T.

    So tomorrow I aim to unpack it and post comparison photos with one of my earlier Hornby versions of this loco. Hope at the same time to photo both locos with Bachmann Mk1 suburbans and Hornby Collett suburbans to model the High Wycombe Branch trains discussed in my earlier posts.

    This loco is all the more welcome as it is my first new model since the start of the lockdown!

    I needed cheering up as I had been planning to take a trip to Bedford next week to pick up from Malcolm models he has worked on for me. I had been waiting until the end of our 12 week shielding and the improvement to near normal of the necessary bus services.

    However there has been a spike in Coronavirus infections in Bedford, to more than twice the level we have locally, and there is talk of a local lockdown there.

    So I think that trip will have to wait maybe another month!

    I hope everybody is well, staying safe, and keeping sane by completing all those models in the when I get round to it box(es)!
    Cheers for now,
    Paul
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  5. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hope all of you in the UK find today's temperatures a bit easier than yesterday's?

    Finally I have got to the photos of my WR Suburban coaches I have been promising! These formations for my small layout Lower Thames Goods Shed are only two coaches to represent the standard 5 coach Q sets because on some runs they will also have a parcels coach such as a Syphon G and three coaches is all the layout can cope with.
    When the coaches transfer to Lower Thames Yard, the formations can expand to 4 coaches. For the two coach formations I have positioned the guards van to the centre of the train rather than at the end so that it does not end up next to the loco on some runs!

    Maidenhead Suburbans 1.jpg

    This set comprises a Bachmann weathered Mk1 suburban brake end and a Hornby collett suburban composite. Both are in crimson. You may say that my 1961/2 dateline is too late for more than the odd crimson coach but I do like them and I think unweathered crimson coaches are easier on the eye than unweathered lined maroon coaches!(So Rule 1!
    This set will run as that stabled at Maidenhead overnight and forming the 0600 departure for Paddington behind the Slough weathered 61xx below (already shown a few posts ago!) running bunker first. Although most Slough engines ran chimney towards London, this ran Bunker first because on reaching Paddington it had a quick turnaround to haul the fast 0736 to Oxford, so chimney first was better for the crew on this run!

    Maidenhead Loco 61xx-4.jpg

    More coaches!

    Maidenhead Suburban 3.jpg
    The second set comprises a Bachmann lined maroon MK1 composite and a Hornby crimson collett suburban brake end. This will form the set that stables at Bourne End overnight before forming the 0730 (Maidenhead 0743) to Paddington. This will be hauled by 6145 running chimney first! (see repeat of earlier photo below).

    maidenhead Locos 61xx-3.jpg

    Finally here is a photo of the two above sets together a they might appear when passing each other.

    Maidenhead Suburbans 4.jpg

    Take care, stay safe
    Best regards
    Paul
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  6. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hi All,
    Here are a few thoughts to start off the week:-

    Looks like my wallet will get a severe pounding sometime soon with the arrival of Bachmann class 117s and 121s
    One interesting comparison will be between the Dapol Bubblecars and the Bachmann ones.
    I will post some photos and my thoughts when the Bachmanns are to hand.
    One good outcome of the lockdown is that I have not been tempted by goodies at shows so reserves have built up a bit against the new arrivals.

    Meanwhile, modelling is slow. I really need this week to settle down and finalise the track layout for "Lower Thames Goods Shed" so that next week I can get some track laid! I might for a change make a start on the key structure for the layout, the goods shed. However, it being a good while since I built any structures I think I might find a simple precut card model to start with rather than jumping in the deep end with the goods shed.

    With Warley cancelled it really is looking that there will be little to attend in 2020 even if we think it safe to attend shows? The trouble is, the longer we leave it, the more difficult it will be to get up and go to any events!

    Hope you are all making progress with your modelling?
    Stay safe,
    Regards
    Paul
     
  7. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,679
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Warley and Guildex both cancelled plus the announcement the Spalding show is cancelled too I think that's this year done, even if they hadn't been cancelled I wouldn't have gone and I love all of them. The general consensus from what I've seen on the f/b model rail pages is that for traders as well as exhibitors and a lot of visitors any shows that could have gone ahead would be very sparsely visited. I've written this year off and not to wish my life away, roll on 2021!

    Pete.
     
    Tallpaul70 likes this.
  8. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hi everybody,
    Today has been a good day even though I have done little modeling!

    I took my first real trip to the town centre this morning since the start of lockdown. Even though visiting my local model shop was not on my agenda I did manage to sort a number of issues that it is not practical to deal with via the internet.

    First on my agenda was that my iPhone has been difficult to charge because the charger lead, which works perfectly with my wife's phone refused to lock into mine, so to charge meant sitting and holding the lead in the phone and sitting with a mains lead trailing across the room. Also I thought that the screen on the phone was starting to crumble.
    Anyway, it turned out that it was only the transparent screen protector that was damaged, so just a few pounds to replace it rather than c£60 for replacing the screen.
    While I did other errands the shop cleaned out and sorted the power socket on the phone.

    I also needed a new battery in my wrist watch, choose birthday cards for four upcoming family birthdays, ( no presents, they will each get a cash transfer this year!), and stock up on hand cleanser.( Supermarkets too expensive!).
    I then needed to find a number of items in our local hardware/garden/household goods shop, which was by and large successful, and did include anumber of items with modeling uses such as several different adhesives.

    I also needed to check which of a number of my wife's favoured shops were open, or if not when they will be.
    Walking round the centre, plus the walk there and back, gave me my days exercise. Our little local bus normally holds 16 but currently only 5!), so I left that for the disabled etc.

    Thus all in all a satisfactory morning, although I was glad to get home as currently there is nowhere to get a sit down and a coffee part way through my shopping. I am pleased to say social distancing measures were not too much of a hinderance, although I mistimed my visit to one shop where I had to wait in a queue of 8 people, onlyto find no queue at all when I came out.

    Don't worry, I won't be boring you with details of such trips in the future, but I thought it worth reporting both to encourage those reading this who have yet to venture far, and also because it marked an important step on our family's journey back to a sort of normality!

    I will get back to modeling topics tomorrow,
    Best regards
    Paul
     
  9. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hello there,

    Getting back to some modeling I have made a start on the Goods Shed for my Lower Thames Goods Shed layout. This will be built so that it can easily be extended for the Goods Shed on Lower Thames Yard, although the easiest way to do the extension might be to keep the brick built shed the same length and add to it the later built metal clad west end extension.
    The first stage was to draw out full size the plan of the Shed and then derive side and end views. A drawing will also be required for the roof and an interior view showing the internal supports and features such as the loading/unloading platform.
    This set of drawings proved tricky and I am not yet satisfied with some aspects of them, so back to the drawing board (pun intentional!).

    Luckily I have, ( and could find!) the instructions for the Superquick Goods Shed which helps on construction methods. However it is likely that I will incorporate some wooden parts to give added strength and rigidity.
    The original shed had 12 bays in its rail side wall, which I might reduce to 10. Due to space considerations I have moved the goods shed from being a through siding building in the up yard to a single ended siding building on a siding off the branch platform . Because the straight shed is hiding the curve towards it of the branch platform line and is therefore next to and at an angle to the Station building, I will be moving the offices from the road side of the up end to the rail side with the shed siding protruding about a wagon length from the up end of the shed.

    One thing I have to decide whether I can live with or not is a plain rail side aspect of the shed. Originally when I was only going to use the shed in the "Yard" layout where it would be viewed from the road side and outer end I had been thinking of avoiding the work in replicating the 12 bays mentioned above as the would not be seen. However having now conceived the "Goods Shed" layout it will be seen on this layout from the other side.
    I am telling myself at present that "Goods Shed" is a test bed layout, not trying to be accurate in all things, so the effort on the bays is not worthwhile!

    After a break while I wrote this post and looked at some details in photos of the Goods Shed, it is time I got back to it!

    Take care everyone,
    Kind regards
    Paul
     
  10. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Good Afternoon All,
    Here is a couple of Lower Thames Yard sketches that explain how I intend to model Maidenhead Station Approach and Grenfell Road.

    Remember the railway only portrays the Relief Lines and the Wycombe Branch. The two tracks to the outside of the lines (bottom of the plans)are the down relief loop+ its siding (the siding is much longer than reality, and the track down to the low level sidings. I have yet to work out how to shield this track from the layout as trains on it will be seen with their top halfs above the layout track level!

    The first shows how the Goods Shed, Branch Platform overall roof and Station buildings are grouped to mask the up end of the layout curves. Now that I have more closeup photos of the Goods Shed I may lengthen it to nearer its true length and have a small version of the later metal clad extension rather than the shorter (nearer Tetbury!) length shown here. However I do want to have a short open goods bank on the end for unloading things like horses and fish!


    [​IMG]

    The buildings between the approach and Grenfell road may be removed to make the car park area larger. I am also considering a few stands for buses. The goods yard needs smaller buildings such as the Weighbridge office to be added in and a wall/gate is needed to fence off the yard from the station approach. The small square in the middle of Grenfell Road is the clocktower, an essential feature of the area although the roads are distorted by the fact that there is no bridge under the railway!

    The second plan fits to the left of the first and shows boards 5 and 6. This incorporates Grenfell Road up to the bridge over the Wycombe branch. The length of this is greatly reduced so the houses are only a representation of what still exists there. (H= house!)


    [​IMG]

    The two sidings next to the road behind the houses run round into the Wycombe line fiddle yard and allow for the swapping of full and empty coal wagons and other open trucks!

    As I have not been able to incorporate the real access to the yard via the bridge under the branch I am considering a bridge under the whole railway on the right of Board 5.

    Boards 1 to 3 are the fiddle yards so I have not shown these.

    I hope these plans explain the scenic part of the layout?

    Keep Smiling,
    Regards
    Paul
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  11. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Good Afternoon Everyone,

    I have updated Lower Thames Yard in line with my comments in my last post, so I have revised the approach road and added the weighbridge office and yard front wall/gate, but I am playing around with the position of Grenfell road along the front of board 5:-
    I have tried a bridge under the lines at the right side of board 5 which didn't look right and would make the woodwork complicated, so I have ditched that idea.
    However in trying this I have realized that the area between the tracks and the road cannot slope towards the road as labelled without changing the edge of board 5 which may already be cut!
    So I have been playing around with bringing the road away from the tracks to have a slope off the edge of the board and some buildings at the road level. An advantage of this approach is that it removes the road dogleg at the corner of board 4.

    The thing I have yet to settle on is the width of the area for the buildings. I am inclined to make these industrial units of some sort so that they are mainly single storey and therefore do not mask the trains on the tracks too much.
    Once I have settled this I will post a copy of the revised versions of boards 4 and 5.

    I am also debating the best approach to the Goods Shed. I would like the shed and its later metal clad extension to be full size, but this would not leave any open track between the end of the shed and the point connecting the goods shed siding to the Branch Siding.
    So I am debating whether to reduce the size of the bays in the Goods Shed or to keep their size but reduce their number. I cannot reduce the length of the original Goods Shed too much otherwise it will not look right with two road vehicle loading docks which I am keen to retain to differentiate it from smaller sheds of this pattern such as Twyford or Tetbury.

    Looking at the article on Twyford in GWJ, an air view of the station has given me ideas on the other small sheds etc. that I should include in Lower Thames Yard's area around the Goods Shed, so these will be included in the next update.

    Meanwhile, I wish everyone well, especially those in OZ and areas in the UK such as Leicester that have once again to face up to the problems of lockdown.
    Cheers
    Paul
     

Share This Page