Mossys 3D Models

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by Mossy, May 19, 2022.

  1. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Same here.. no idea! Looked identical !!
     
  2. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018

    Think I’ll stick to the spot the difference cartoons on the back of the crossword books! :avatar:
     
  3. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    NER Class A loco

    For some reason since the clocks changed I have reverted to my old working waking up time of 4:15 prior to a 5:15 departure for Warrington. It’s left me with a lot of quite time and I fancied a serious drawing and probably printing challenge. Having done quite a few wagons I decided to try to model a loco as a long term project with no real idea how long it would take.

    First steps – which one, well that’s easy I have always fancied an NER Class A (LNER F8), a 2-4-2 tank. There is an existing etched brass kit sold by Slaters under the Rising Star brand, but it’s effectively a 0-8-0 without a back head at the snip price of £190. Poking about in my spares, I found two sets of 3’ 9 ¼” wheels for the front and back pony trucks and an MSC engine all of which I had completely forgotten about but which cemented the decision as only 2 pairs of drivers would need buying.

    The next step a diagram, hmm. I found a basic (basically dimensions only) outline diagram in Ken Hooles book on the NER loco’s, a 4mm scale drawing in an old edition of the NER Express and Rob Pulham supplied me with the GA diagram. I find GA’s desperately hard to follow, but by combining all three plus other bits of NER diagrams there was enough to created at least a facsimile of a class A. There were also clear side view photos in Ken Hooles book, one of which is 490 one of the original batch of 10 loco’s in origna; condition.

    Finally I read and re-read Paul Lancaster log of designing his Drummond 0-4-4, which is not that dissimilar to the class A to get some ideas on what I was taking on. I’m not going to try build an engine mount and gear as Paul did, the MSC comes with its own gearbox. Let battle commence.
     
    paul_l and Rob Pulham like this.
  4. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    The bodywork.

    I decided to start with what I am most familiar with body work. Nothing much that’s of note to mention, it isn’t finished but this is where I have got to:

    Bodywork 28-11.jpg

    The boiler/smokebox presented its own unique challenge. I've never drawn a chimney, dome or Ramsbottom cover before and viewing a couple of Youtube videos didn't help. Fortunately Rob Pulham agreed to a short zoom session to show me the ropes. I decided the dome would be the easiest to do so started with it. After numerous cock-ups and resets I succeeded after which the chimney proved straight forward and with a bit more juggling the Ramsbottom cover.

    Boiler-Smokebox 28-11.jpg

    The next task will be to finish of the bits I haven't done yet and then the chassis, which I am less than comfortable about.

    Mossy
     
  5. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    That looks excellent!!!

    Braver man than me. It’s all the small details like rivets etc that have to be the right size, right place etc.. (not to mention those that count).. sometimes it’s simply just knowing why is it there!

    but your chimney and domes look excellent! Good effort! Look forward to watching the progress!
     
    paul_l and Rob Pulham like this.
  6. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Andy,

    The NER didn't like rivets somewhere on here there is a thread on which Rob posted an amazing chimney from an NER class J (I think) with neat rivets all the way around the rim.
    One of the guys from the NER Association then pointed out rivets were a no no and were filed down, then filled and smoothed so he needed to remove them. As for mine, I simply employ the philosophy 'if it looks right that's fine', life to short to get pedantic. Although where they can be seen I do try to get the correct number. As for size I operate a system of big, medium and small based on the size drawn on the diagram - .9mm, .7mm and .5mm. If someone wants to object that's their problem.
     
    jakesdad13 and Rob Pulham like this.
  7. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2020
    The thread by Rob where he produced 3D drawings for the chimney, dome and safety valve cover can be found here. I don't know if he ever got round to producing castings from the 3D prints but as he did a particularly fine job on the tricky safety valve cover it could save you some additional work if you borrowed his files. The NER Class A was T. W. Worsdell's first design for the North Eastern Railway and used some existing parts from Fletcher locomotives. The most prominent of these was the chimney which differed from the standard chimney latterly used on Classes B, C etc. although photographic evidence shows that the standard chimney was used as a replacement on some engines and you will need to check if this applies to your chosen prototype. I've attached a drawing for the chimney as originally used. Is this the same as the one shown on the General Arrangement Drawing?

    Tom.


    Class A chimney.jpg
     
  8. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Hi Tom.

    Thanks for the info. Yes I have Rob's Ramsbottom Cover F3d file, sadly its a little to tall for the Class A, but I used his logic to produce mine. He also sent me the F3d's for his Class J chimney and dome along with a Wilson Worsdell chimney. I used the class A chimney from the inside cover of NER Record vol 3 while the dome was created from the 4mm Class A diagram in an old NER Express, which is the basis of my model. I will compare the chimney diagram you sent with the one I used and decide which to use, they look slightly different. I am trying to create one of the engines from the first batch of 10, based on the photo of 490 in Ken Hooles book so an original chimney should be used. If you know of any nice photos of early locos please get in touch as the only ones I found in the NERA archive aren't very clear. I don't know if you can help with the other outstanding questions I have, this first is the small oil box shown on the front of the side splasher duplicated on the other splasher, I am assuming so. The other (and more difficult because I can't find which express the diagram is in) is there is a diagonal line of rivets/bolt heads on the frame extension but what is the thing draw immediately to the rivets right, which also seems to replicate above it. I originally thought it looked like a lifting ring, Rob pointed out if you lift from there you would crush the smokebox (a mere trivial detail) and thinks it related to the spring mounting above any ideas?

    Mossy
     
    jakesdad13 and paul_l like this.
  9. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    After writing the above post I decided to use Tom's much clearer diagram to create a new chimney so left the old chimney, right the new one. The main difference being the small rounded lip where the chimney meets the smoke box which shows clearly on Tom's and that I fudged on the original, its also slightly wide around the midriff not unlike me. I prefer and am going with the new one.

    Chimneys.jpg
     
  10. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,051
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Hi Mossy

    Looking good, just playing catchup as I've been offline for the few days.

    I did spot the hole straightaway on the wagon - obviously I'm spending too much time looking for hole or lack of on my models as well. :hammer:

    Chimney looks good, I would suggest you print the chimney as part of the smokebox, why I hear you ask, that 1/2" lip will only be 0.29mm thick, so any supports are likely to damage the edge - suppose you can guess how I know. Now you may get away with by printing the chimney upside down, with supports only on the top rim.

    I made the cab front full height, and also 1.8 mm thick, with a 0.8mm gap in the middle to allow 18 x 18 mm Microscope cover glasses to be inserted to form the glass windows.

    Paul
     
  11. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Due to various Christmas shopping trips I have had a quite day today and will get another tomorrow so the Class A has progressed with a number of minor job finished off. It currently consists of 22 body parts and 13 boiler/smokebox parts and I haven’t even thought about the chassis etc.

    Tom Burnham supplied me with drawings of small and large Ramsbottom cover so I took the opportunity to redraw the cover using his supplied sketch. I also finally bit the bullet and created the roof. Other bits completed are the front and rear steps. I took Paul’s suggestion and thickened the front and back cab wall and created an envelope so a lens slipcase could be slid in as the glazing. Rob suggested getting rid of the boiler bands as they would be to thick so they have been binned.

    Base on some observations and comments of Tom’s the oil box has been moved from the front of the side tank to the rear of the smokebox saddle and a line of nuts added to its side as they are visible. The rivets on the front of the smokebox have been converted to nuts (why did I draw them as rivet? Who knows. And finally a small inspection cover has been added to the frame this was previously an object of debate.

    So the boiler/smoke box looks like this:

    Screenshot 2022-11-30 141320.jpg

    When combined with the body it looks like this.

    Screenshot 2022-11-30 142012.jpg

    Screenshot 2022-11-30 142631.jpg

    It's proving a disaster as a long term project as things seem to be moving at paste. Time to take stock and list everything still to do to complete the body work

    Mossy
     
  12. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    In theory I should have had a free day yesterday as swmbo was out on a shopping trip with our daughter but the list of jobs I was left with curtailed much playing with 360. I have a depressingly long list of bitty jobs to do with the class A body but really didn't like my side tank filler cap, so after digging about I found a photo of the Lawrie Griffin brass casting of one and used it to redraw mine which now looks much more realistic. The L shaped handle on the locking bar which is only .5mm in diameter and will be in a vulnerable place may well be replaced by a piece of brass wire.

    Screenshot 2022-12-02 092118.jpg

    The other bitty jobs I left and made a start on the chassis but that's still in a state not fit to be seen in public, the biggest problem being all the brake actuating mechanism is hidden behind the cab footsteps and I cant find a drawing or view of what it looks like.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022 at 9:46 AM
    jakesdad13, paul_l and Rob Pulham like this.
  13. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,051
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Hi Mossy

    I may be worth replacing the whole handle and locking pin and bracket with wire soldered on to a BA set screw and a bit of brass for the bracket, as putting a piece of wire to replace the handle may strengthen the hadle, but the locking pin then becomes the weakest part.

    Paul
     
  14. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

    Messages:
    3,367
    Likes Received:
    3,472
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    You mean like this?

    [​IMG]
     
    paul_l, jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  15. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Shouldn’t the windy handle be on a pivot at the bottom so it can move away from the shaft? Otherwise the only way the lid will lift is to totally remove the handle?
     
  16. Walkingthedog

    Walkingthedog Full Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    585
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    Are you referring to the Mossy version. If the handle is turned 90 degrees with the hand hold on the outside there is a slot in the lid to go over the handle
     
  17. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,161
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    I suppose that would work?
    Normally I’ve seen them screw down. But tip outwards to release the lid?
     
  18. Walkingthedog

    Walkingthedog Full Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    585
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2020
    I’ve seen those. Think Rob's does that.
     
    Rob Pulham likes this.
  19. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2020
    This is the best image I could find of the arrangement to secure the filler cap. Its from a NER Class W but is identical to that used on the Class A.

    Tom.

    Image0262_edited-8.jpg
     
    jakesdad13 and Rob Pulham like this.
  20. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2020
    Thanks Tom, as always you come up with the answer.

    Andy yes the windy handle needs to be on a pivot as you suggested. I have another change to make to the cover so will incorporate a pivot when I make that change.

    Mossy
     
    paul_l, Andy_Sollis and Rob Pulham like this.

Share This Page