NER Class G1 a tale of waste etch

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by Mossy, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Since a couple of people expressed an interest I thought my on going battles with the NER G1 might be of interest so the story so far.

    The “kit”

    This comes from a now retired supplier, who if you phone or write to him (yes snail mail) will pull out the old etch masters and get a set of etches done for you. It is about a 4 week wait having ordered and paid for the kit before they are supplied. What is included are the etches, plus any castings he has, these are a mixture of white metal and lost wax. No packaging, box or any of the myriad of bits and pieces you would get in a full kit. What you also don’t get is the boiler or smokebox wrapper, you have to source the material and cut and roll these yourself using supplied dimensions.

    Being old worn etch masters, the quality was let’s say variable, some parts were nice and clean, while others almost had to be hacked from the etch and then thoroughly cleaned up.

    The lost wax casting are pretty good, the white metal ones are poor, I only manged to salvage the smokebox door so ended up replacing the rest with castings from Gladiator Models.

    The instruction are minimal, but, sufficient if you have built a couple of locos before.

    The build to date.

    The kit is designed to build the later 4-4-0 version of a G1, in order to built the 2-40 it’s necessary to cut away the front of the chassis an graft on new sections (these are supplied). A scary little job, with no aids to alignment etc, so it needs real care, I got it right second go.

    The chassis build is conventional, what I forgot to do was to mark out positions for sprung pickups and brake rigging etc – a stupid mistake which has caused problems. Lesson 1 do it in the falt so both sides are identical!

    Building the loco body again is pretty standard, although it is almost entirely edge to edge soldering, there are only 4 tab/slots, two for the splasher sides, two for the frame extensions.

    The cab front appears to drop into two additional slots in the foot plate, but doesn’t. It needs to be located using the top of the sides as reference points, also it needs to be cut off just below splasher height otherwise the wheels don’t fit. Yep missed this point and had an interesting time cutting it down later.

    The cab interior has a number of challenges. It is designed with the internal splashers folding up from the footplate, but the etch is so wide there is a gap of roughly 1.5 mm between the splasher and the cab side which needs to be filled. The sides of the splasher has to be “fabricated from waste etch”, the only problem being there aren’t waste etch pieces big enough! Also the splasher top is supposed to overlap the sides by 1mm, again waste etch, again, nothing big enough. I haven’t resolved either of these yet, I am debating using plasticard or buying a small piece of nickel silver.

    That’s as far as I have got with the loco.

    The Tender

    Well it’s a box what could be more simple.

    The chassis has 2 etched slots to join it to the tender body, one small problem, exactly where one of these slot is position there a huge hole in the tender footplate i.e. nothing to fasten it to. Guess what more waste etch to create a cross member with a 6 ba bolt soldered on top. There is also no attachment point for the draw bar, again waste etch and 6 ba bolt solder in place.

    I had already realised the kit didn’t come with tender brakes, but had some spares (LNER type, but barely visible so they would do). Again, I should have marked out the positions of the rigging before assembly and didn’t, then realised the chassis isn’t long enough for the third set of brake rigging, the frames need extending. This is all still to be resolved and a good reminder to think and plan ahead.

    Glad all that’s over, so to the tender body.

    There are 2 tab slots to locate the tender sides, but as in instructions state these are a guide and not necessarily accurate, so why bother!.

    The sides of the water tank should curve into the front, but because of the design are at right angles. I can’t see a solution to this so have left them rounded.

    There is nothing to locate the tender top to the sides, I ended up soldering waste etch to the sides to provide some degree of support until I could fully solder the top in place.

    Also the rear top section should butt fit against the front, except its 3mm to short, fortunately this will be hidden by coal, so i just bodged a way around it.

    Finally there are no inner side to the side tanks or coal plate “waste etch again”.

    That’s about where its at, I keep picking it up, fiddle about a bit and put it down again, any way the time has come to try make progress. Readers may now appreciate the need for the V2 and Horsebox builds that are being done simultaneously – a small grasp on sanity.

    Mossy G1 Loco subassemblies.JPG G1 tender.JPG
     
  2. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice clean work Mossy, I see you have fitted horn blocks (Slaters?)
    How will you do the pick ups ?
     
  3. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Hi Kimbo,

    On 3 locos I have I have a fixed axle (usually the rear one) which I drive from, all the others have Slaters sprung horn blocks, the fourth loco is fixed axle.

    Pick ups on all of them is via Slaters sprung pick up's. A trick I picked up some where is to slightly stretch the spring, which is said to improve adhesion and therefore pickup, given I have no layout I haven't tested this yet, but it can't hurt.

    The problem with the G1, and again caused by a lack of planning is the main top chassis former is slap bang in the way of where the motor will fit. I need to decide if I should move it, or drive off the front sprung axle.

    Mossy
     
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  4. Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Good tip Mossy, I will try that on my next build (8F). My Q1 build had all three axles fitted with horn blocks, not sure if that was over kill, but the end result is a very smooth ride.......I also opted to fit plunger pick ups on the tender wheels which again might be over kill but she runs very well with no hiccups !
     
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  5. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Mossy,

    It's not that the masters are old and worn per se, (they are films which the etch is produced from by exposure to light) but the fact that almost all Steve Hoyle's and many older kits from other supplies it's fair to say are hand drawn. You can usually tell at a glance whether the artwork is hand drawn because it has none of the crispness that you associate with CAD drawn etches. Even poorly designed etches drawn by CAD look better than hand drawn ones. The only exception to this I I have found is Connoisseur models. Most of Jim's original range I believe are hand drawn, but you would be hard pressed to tell, because they are so well drawn.

    That's not to say that hand drawn etches don't make into fine models, it's that a lot of the parts are not quite as regular to look at for example things like plank lines on the sides of van bodies or coaches have slight discrepancies in widths not really that noticeable once assembled and painted but they are if you run a set of callipers over them.

    PS another thread I had missed:headbanger:
     
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  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes hand drawn etchs Rob ... oh dear ... brings back memories of a certain LMS tank loco I built a couple years ago. In fairness I find hand drawn etches can go two ways, firstly small parts such as motion items look awful on the fret but can clean up and work well and, secondly larger items such as tank bunker and cab sides which look quite correct on the fret can sometimes make an ill fitting. This of course magnifies itself as the build progresses to the point where correct dimensions become lost, an example being the Ivatt 2 cab with tank side fitting to a half piece floorplate and the backend bunker not wanting to fit correctly. Exasperating indeed when it happens and not always possible to foresee when doing a dry fit.
     
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  7. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Rob / Paul,

    The G1 etches are pretty good and crisp and I didn't expect something of the quality of a Big Jim kit.
    I had also been warned it is/was difficult to turn an NER Days etch into an acceptable model.

    This build has been plagued by 2 reasons, firstly a lack of forethought on my behalf, mea culpa. But also a number of the parts simply don't fit or don't exist or haven't been thought about. Pieces that are oversize can always be "fettled", but like the tank top what do you do when there is a 3-4 mm gap between it and the part it is meant to marry to?

    The current state of play with this loco is:

    Tender:
    Body basically done,
    Tender top resolved.
    Water tanks, no internal sides included on the etch so replaced by plasticard inserts
    No provision for front mounting screw - sorted with a strip of etch waste.
    No provision for the drawbar, again resolved using waste etch.

    Still to decide if I extend chassis to allow full brake rigging to be fitted, or leave as is and ..... the brake gear.

    Loco:
    Internal splashers for the rear driving wheels designed to fold up from the footplate - etch is so wide there is a 2-3mm gap between the splasher and the cab side - waste
    etch in short supply, not resolved yet.
    No provision for the drawbar, or rear mounting screw/nut - fixed.
    Prominent brass beading to splashers supposed to sit in a half etch groove, one side perfect, the other tapers form 1.5mm to .5mm, bodged not great but the best I could do.
    Westinghouse pump - nothing to act as a mounting for the pump - yet to resolve but probably more "waste etch"

    Chassis
    Main spacer in the way of the motor (my problem) has to be moved.
    Location of outer brake rigging, not indicated on etch, and I forgot to pre plan ano personnel oops.
    Sprung pickup - as above - again my fault.

    So currently in a box and hidden away while I drink myself under the table and decide to either scrap it or rejoin battle at a later date.

    Keep well gents.

    Mossy
     
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  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Needs to go on a shelf just above the work bench - that way one day it will annoy you enough to go at it again :avatar:

    Looks like it will make an interesting model, i'll get the popcorn ready for the next round.

    Paul
     
  9. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Paul,

    "The work bench" is actually the dining room table. It has spent the last year doubling up as a home office and a work bench, but I am now retired so no more home office.
    She who must be keeps muttering about getting the table back, I keep putting things off citing Covid and mental health needs but how long that will last who knows.

    Any way what it should look like when finished in its early 2-4-0 form is:


    Class G  274 small.jpg
     
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  10. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    That's exactly what I did and I am now down to two vehicles before I have them all completed.
     
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  11. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    I am slowly working my way though a number of shelf queens, but concentrating on ones which don't stress me out as apposed to the one that makes me want to throw it through the window!

    Almost done are a number of Furness Railway wagons, NER Dia C2, C9 and Q1 just need number plates - but I cant get the Powside ones to work - do you know if there are any waterside NER transfers available? Then it's just a final matt varnish.

    Also approaching completion is a G1 van from the same supplier. My leaving present (January this year) was another 4 of Marc's NER vans, those are in the stack and I am studiously avoiding going anywhere near them.

    I also have a couple of D&S coaching stock kits on the go, a 6 wheel coach and a horse box) but they get reserved for light relief as they go together so easily and are a pleasure to build

    Keep well guys.

    Mossy
     
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  12. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Trying to follow my own advice - got to build a shelve - actually maybe better make it a few shelves :facepalm:

    Paul
     
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  13. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Mossy,

    I have one of Steve's G1 Van's in the stash. How does it go together?
     
  14. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Hi Rob,

    My G1 is from Furness RC, so its a mixed cast resin, 3d printed and brass confection, not one of Steve Hoyles.
    All up its a very straight forward build, but can't comment on the Steve Hoyle kit.

    Mossy
     
  15. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Ahh sorry my misreading of your post.

    Thinking about it somewhere I have a G1 body that I made with the Silhouette cutter, I need to dig it out and see what still needs to be done to complete it.
     
  16. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    This is my home brewed G1 van body.

    IMG_0001.JPG

    New-Out99999.jpg
     
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  17. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Very smart - I will do a photo of the FRC G1 later, as I am about to go for my daily walk.

    Mossy
     
  18. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    I think your Silhouette cutter is cheating try adding all that bracing from etch without getting superglue every where ii isn't meant to be.

    Photos are my FWRC G1 with a first coat of paint, and roof just posed.

    Mossy

    6C3A5607.JPG 6C3A5608.JPG
     

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  19. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Hi Mossy,

    Is the body cast resin with etches stuck on for the corner plates etc. or is the actual framing made up from layers of etch?

    I ask because back in my 4mm days I built this Bill Bedford NBR Cask wagon and that was made up from layers of etch which was a complete pain with no instructions of which bit went where. To make things worse each section of framing was an individual section of etch layers.

    For example on the G1 van where you would expect the framing on each side panel to perhaps be a X say three layers deep. This was three layers deep but the X was made up from four pieces. Each subtly different. It took me ages to work out how they went. In the end even for the novice 'solderer' that I was at the time, soldering it up was definitely the easiest part of the job.

    [​IMG]

    My appologies for side tracking your thread.
     
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  20. Mossy

    Mossy Full Member

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    Rob, don't worry about side tracking things.

    All the body components sides, ends, floor, chassis and end posts are cast resin.
    Axle boxes/springs and buffers are 3d printed (resin I think).

    Much of the rest are brass etches, except for the roof that's also brass but came pre shaped.

    I now have quite a few of Marc Dobsons, NER kits and all but 1 are of similar composition,
    the only exception is a G8 Gun Powder van, all its body parts are brass, with a huge mount of punch out rivet detail.
    The floor, ends and sides are one piece, and fold up into an open box structure.
    I am going to have to get much better at punching rivets before I tackle that one.

    He has a pretty big range of pre grouping kits from any number of railway companies. It would be nice if the kits were better presented, also its not uncommon to find parts missing, but to be fair they are supplied pretty quickly once you point them out.

    Mossy
     

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