Now for something different... or is it.

Discussion in 'Specifically for scratch builds' started by York Paul, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    This is an idea that has been hanging around for a long time now and after some research I've decided to go for the plunge and give myself a real beefy project which could form centre point to a new layout display project. Originally I'd thought about something that you could look up to maybe a line on an embankment but after thinking awhile it just seemed too mundane and thus my original Leek Arm was shelved, I've also decided to limit myself in length because from experience these grandiose ideas always fall flat at the first hurdle due to costs, space and time. However I do like bridges, I like rivers and I like rural tree scenes so this plan has all these elements including a fish ladder and an embankment with signals :avatar::lol:.

    So here is my idea and after some research I shall have to do a scale drawing and see how this can be condensed, this is Norbury Bridge on the old NSR Ashbourne line, the bridge crossed over the River Dove on two caissons at a skew with a beam length of 187 feet, the two leading transom beams were 81' and 124' in length each. I'd like to do this bridge in brass if possible.


    Original copywrite now expired under the 70 year rule but a copy of this picture belongs in the Collection of Allan C Baker.
     
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Looks like a very nice project. In brass as well. Lovely. :thumbs:
     
  3. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Weigh a damn ton it will I bet... can't imagine SWMBO will carry this around on her back to shows... now who else could be up to the task :avatar::avatar::avatar:
     
  4. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    No worries ..... Dundee will do it ...... :avatar:
     
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  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    :avatar::avatar::avatar::avatar: :lol::D:giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::thumbs::tophat:
     
  6. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    :facepalm:Not another O gauge bridge layout! :avatar:
     
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  7. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I hope your riveting tool is up to the job - there is 108 in the bottom RH panel in the photo alone

    and at 187 feet - almost 1.4m in 7mm, forget the brass, just think of the weight in solder.

    To save time I know someone with a bridge already

    Looking forward to this build.

    Paul
     
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  8. Gary

    Gary Will the real Gary please stand up... Staff Member Administrator

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    Now that bridge will certainly give Dundee Paul's 3D printer a work out.... :avatar::avatar:

    I like bridges too and if I had my way, I would build a layout with quite a few types of them. Looking forward to this. :thumbs:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Apparently the original one designed by the NSR Chief Engineer George Crosbie-Dawson had 53,000 rivets and weighed 670 tons, the contractor was Eastwood Swingler & Co of Victoria and Railway Ironworks of Derby. There was also a second smaller bow string bridge a couple of miles or so up the line at Knavesholme which brought the line back into Derbyshire, both of which are now gone, all that remains are the caissons and stone abutments which I photographed some twenty odd years ago. However I do believe but have never tried to explore it; a third NSR bow string bridge (apart from the one in Longton) survives on the Churnet Valley section to cross the River Dove again just below Crakemarsh near Uttoxeter but from what I am told it is near impossible to access the site. Asbourne - Uttoxeter trains would have traversed this bridge having passed through Rocester Junction.

    I'd like to have a go at building the Norbury Bridge even if that is all I do, the area is very scenic but I won't be doing 53,000 rivets.
     
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  10. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I have seen Atlantic salmon trout in flight jumping the fish ladder on the weir just off the River Dove by the site of this old bridge, an amazing sight Gary. Sadly Staffordshire County Council took the old bridge away for scrap back in 1971, so I guess the only way to see this stuff nowadays is to build a model.
     
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  11. Gary

    Gary Will the real Gary please stand up... Staff Member Administrator

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    There are a few remaining small bow string bridges north east of Keswick on the old rail trail between Keswick and Threlkeld, although these are single line only...


    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  12. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    One of favourite aspects are bridges, my layout will have dozens of them, hence the next module I build will be a valley with 3-4 of them, including a 1.2meter cable stay!
    I think scratch building a brass one is both beyond my patience and current abilities! If brass is to heavy, then a combo of plastic and 3D printed parts may be the answer.
    As for rivets, not that I am a counter, but they would make the model, if they could be done realistically. I have an idea that has been lurking in my brain for 20 years, as to how to apply regular rivets to a flat surface that would be revolutionary compared to what is currently available, but have never developed it, as I don't have the needed metal shop to fabricate the application system. As I know Paul has certain items that would be needed, perhaps I could share, if you are willing to be the alpha tester?
    Or should I apply for a patent first?:avatar:
     
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  13. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    I would Tim, as you never know where this group will take it... it could make you millions...or hundreds and thousands...

    I’d just be happy with smarties. :avatar:
     
  14. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    That's a lovely bridge at Greta and the other one lower down the valley was washed off its abutments by Storm Desmond in the floods a couple years ago, the Cockermouth & Keswick Railway design was slightly different to the Knotty ones but to me the overall scene of a wooded valley and river is iconic. Thanks for sharing the video Gary... its much appreciated.:thumbs:
     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Right now Timber I'm not sure which way this project will go so at this time I wouldn't want to commit to anything, but thank you for your consideration anyway. :thumbs: I think the first stage for me is to locate original drawings and records and then sit down and see what is realistic and possible... a total bridge length which is somewhere in the region of 2 metres in length isn't really practical so a considerable amount of compression will be required.
     
  16. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    All great ideas. The power of collaboration. I'd think our man Yorkie will already have the answer to the rivet application in the bank somehow. :avatar:Maybe a patent for the bridge itself would be more appropriate. :avatar:ill look forward to this one coming together Yorkie.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  17. 60019Bittern

    60019Bittern Full Member

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    The Forth Bridge would make a nice model
     
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  18. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    Road or rail ....... Old or new. :avatar:There are three now. :tophat:
     
  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    ROFL :giggle::avatar::lol:
     
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Nah Bittern, it would take too much paint :avatar:
     
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