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River Dee Meats ... My first foray into O Gauge

Discussion in 'Planks, Switching and Shelf Layouts' started by Gary, Jun 19, 2018.

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  1. Sep 22, 2018 #81
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Neither am I ! ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  2. Sep 22, 2018 #82
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    What is the reason for cutting through a point Gary may I ask? Is it to increase the leads between the crossing Vee's or to make an isolating joint? I personally wouldn't cut through a pair of points if you are going to lengthen them somehow, imagine the turnout side of the point as a circle, now imagine cutting the circle and inserting a small straight piece... you now don't have an equal radius but have introduced a "flat" which in a set of RTR (Peco) points will potentially give lots of trouble in operation. I've hand built points in the past using C&L Finescale (when Peter had the business) and my advice is the angle of the curve of the switches should be the same as the angle on the crossing Vee otherwise you will see wheels climbing up the outside curve and trains derailing, so entry must equal exit for smooth running... if you see what I mean. If you need to extend the leads because you are increasing the distance between points just add in a short transition piece between both point ends... if that makes the track spacing widen apart too much for your needs then you must get some points with a flatter angle turnout, eg some longer ones. Finally it won't work to "stretch the points by cutting all four closure rails in the middle behind the Vee and inserting lengthening pieces to make a shallower and longer point because the crossing angles will then be wrong and you will be back to the flat in the circle syndrome again.
     
  3. Sep 22, 2018 #83
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Paul, the layout is built on four individual baseboards and at the moment, all my plans have been drawn with the points on individual boards, as shown on this diagram. The reason I ask about cutting through points is so I can lengthen the short sidings on the right hand side.

    O GAUGE new design anyrail ABC1 - A.jpg

    If I were to extend the length of the sidings on the right hand side, a right hand point would end up bridging the join, like this...

    O GAUGE new design anyrail -EXTENDED.jpg

    It's all about getting the correct look of the layout, to which I should probably go with my gut feeling and move forward with my original plan, but I can also understand your reasoning regarding the trailing points. As it is a terminus line, (basically a means to an end), to serve a abattoir only and not necessarily anything else, the original plan works as shunting will occur and at some point, even in the real 12":1' world, a train will have to travel over a facing point or two.... ;)

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  4. Sep 22, 2018 #84
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah yes I've got it now Gary, its that balance between space and having a set up which works best and looks good... what a pity the joint in the boards is where it is, my thoughts would be to cut the point midway between the Vee and the switches on the fixed closure rails, cutting there won't or shouldn't affect the point blade movement or drive mechanisms. That way you can have the point you cut into straddle both boards, whatever you do Gary the layout plan looks good whichever direction you put the points in and I totally get the need to maximize the siding room. :thumbup:
     
  5. Sep 22, 2018 #85
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    The baseboards I am using are 5' in length, perfect length for my station wagon (Astra). Any longer and I won't be able to stack the boards in the back to transport to exhibitions !

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  6. Sep 22, 2018 #86
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I gathered they were that size hence the dilemma, I started Elton Crossing off as having four foot sections I hit the same issue with the crossover points, so the section became an eight foot board which would still fit nicely in my van... but then I lost the plot and suddenly realised the section was getting too heavy. Big big learning curve for me :hammer::scratchchin:.
     
  7. Sep 22, 2018 #87
    SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Gary I had a peco “O” point cut in half on the test track plank never had any issues with it the test track board was originally 8ft long then I cut it in the middle to make 2, 4 foot boards the point just happened to be in the middle, it was already ballast etc so I just cut it with a razor saw.
    Image below shows the cut at the board edge

    771A1051-9FB1-4A23-8A34-C82450C1BDE7.jpeg
     
  8. Sep 22, 2018 #88
    Dr Tony

    Dr Tony Full Member

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    Gary,
    A thought I'd had is to maybe add a micro extension onto the siding end of the layout, say a very short length, 200mm or whatever is needed. Should be able to find room for this in the Astra. I have done similar to my layout, Gundah Junction, when I realised that the sprung buffers that I was using (more for their practicality than their looks) would make the sidings and head shunts too short. I then make small 100mm extension boards and simply mounted the buffers to them with the contact points hanging over the rails. Mine at least does not have track going over the extensions, so I don't have to get more dowells for lining things up precisely. But like you, I couldn't make the boards permanently longer as the boards have to fit into the Corona for exhibiting. Having scenery going over another board joint is a pain too, so that is something else to consider. Could make it into a loco shed or some other scenic break.
    On the facing point issue even today there are different thoughts about it across different rail authorities. NSW seemed to be well against them, now they seem to be over that and have facing points everywhere, it does make operations easier. Some signallers though still look at them differently and require facing points to be clipped for when an odd track vehicle, such as a hi-railer goes through facing points from the loop section. The situation is similar in Victoria, but less restrictive. In New Zealand it is a different story altogether, they are not so keen on facing points, and especially with a hi-rail vehicle. New Zealand runs narrow (3'6") compared to NSW (standard) and Victoria (broad). Might be a gauge issue.
    Cheers
    Tony
     
  9. Sep 22, 2018 #89
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Paul, that is the one issue I want to avoid, weight. With my back issue, heavy, cumbersome boards are a no-no. I am keeping the weight down using these boards and the length of the boards is what I have to deal with !

    Chris, I do recall that layout you purchased and 'chopped'. It seemed to work good for you, but having a point chopped in half, exposed on the ends and that of transport, it would not be an easy fix if there was any damage to occur. It would regret cutting one and then have it snag on something during transit and ultimately putting the layout out for a while until repaired. At least a small section of flex track is readily available and a lot easier to repair if the inevitable happened !

    Tony, nice idea. I had considered that. I know I can get six foot in the car and that is with the passenger set forward all the way (making it uncomfortable to any passenger), but with the width of the boards (515mm / 20 1/4"), it does change the transporting slightly compared to my previous boards of 300mm/12" and 400mm/16". Length wise, I could possible make an extension, but then the passenger seat needs to be almost upright as the seat leans back and the tailgate is not perpendicular. The space resembles a trapezoid shape, meaning the higher I stack the modules, the narrower the end walls get !

    Late last night I laid out the track in the original configuration knowing full well this track plan works and allows me to shunt wagons accordingly. One thing I found with the current design (post 79) is that it looked overly cluttered at one end. I will undoubtedly resume building the original track plan as it does not compromise the placement of points and the only cutting of track is on the straight sections.

    I thank everyone for their valuable input and it will serve as a lesson to other members/modellers building a model railway as well. Go with your gut feeling and if in doubt, just put the question out to the forum members !

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  10. Sep 23, 2018 #90
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    I'm sure you'll reach the right compromise Gary. Wizard of trackplans. Amongst other things. :avatar:
     
  11. Sep 23, 2018 #91
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Well, I got the track down, although temporarily. Next up will be drilling the baseboard for droppers and also for the five point frogs. Haven't decided on type of point actuation I'll go for yet. Whether it be wire in tube, solenoids or something fancier, not sure but I do know that the depth of the baseboard frames that Cobalts/Tortoise are out.

    Decisions, decisions... :scratchchin:

    Ok, a pic of the slow progress...


    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  12. Sep 23, 2018 #92
    ed

    ed Full Member

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    Looking good Gary, (if a little big) :thumbup:



    Ed
     
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  13. Sep 25, 2018 #93
    SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Gary
    Is this to be DCC or a DC layout

    Have you done the point mods to make sure the points are reliable
    The joiners for the blades are very unreliable esp when at exhibition in the variable conditions
    I put a wire link to bridge across the two joiner and if you are powering the frog separate ( swithch or Frog juicer) , cut the links under the point once done I add link’s from the swithch Rails to outer running rails, then you will never be relying on a friction contact to conduct the power.

    I’m sure you have done this with the frogs on OO points before as standard practice, but the extra weight of the o scale locos will show up the point blade contact issues as they will flex quite a bit.
     
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  14. Sep 25, 2018 #94
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Chris for the words of advice.

    Track is not permanently down yet, but may be in a couple of weeks. I'm thinking of wire in tube and slide switches, ala Industry Lane, albeit with larger switches for operating the points. I'll apply the same principle with the slides switches and frog feed.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  15. Sep 25, 2018 #95
    Kimbo

    Kimbo Staff Member Moderator

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    Looking good Gary. Will you be removing the “coffins” on the points?
    Kim
     
  16. Sep 25, 2018 #96
    Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    The 33 looks in good nick Gary. Can we have a couple of close ups ?
     
  17. Sep 25, 2018 #97
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Maybe I should have modelled a cemetery train..! After all, I do work in one ! :avatar::avatar:

    Yes, I will remove the coffins in good time. I attempted one the other night thinking they are a snap fit... :scratchchin:

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  18. Sep 25, 2018 #98
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Mate, to be honest I don't want to scare you with it. Most would have consigned it to Barry Scrap Yard ! :redface:

    It requires a lot of work to get it up to scratch. There are corners missing, cracks, bad paint work etc etc. You really don't want to see it, but then again, I paid very little for it !

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  19. Oct 18, 2018 #99
    Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Well today I have patched up the holes in the baseboard using 3mm MDF. This was done by measuring the holes and adding an extra 3mm around the perimeter. This piece of MDF was then traced out over the whole and an outline drawn on the cork.


    Then the piece of MDF glued in with contact adhesive.


    Also on the agenda was removing sleepers and replacing them with copper clad sleepers each side of the join in the baseboards. The PCB was cut approximately the same size as the Peco sleepers and also some 3mm MDF to the same size. Contact adhesive was used to glue the PCB and MDF. The offending plastic sleepers were removed and the new copper sleepers installed. Contact adhesive was used to position the PCB/MDF sleepers on the baseboard. Once these were soldered, I drilled holes into them and nailed them to the baseboard with 20mm long panel pins.


    The next job is to paint the track...

    I started with the sleepers. Mixing a few of these colours together, is grey/cream and grey/red/brown, a happy medium was met. I gave all the sleepers a swipe with the grey first.


    The paint I used...


    Once touch dry, I used the other two blended colours to pic out sleepers. This pic does not really do the track justice as I believe it looks a lot better in the flesh !


    By the time I got to the opposite end, I started on hand painting the rails. I used Citadel 'Mournfang Brown' for this...


    Here is a comparison pic of painted and clean track...


    Next up is to pull the layout out from the wall and hand paint the opposite side of the rails...

    More as it happens.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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  20. Oct 18, 2018 #100
    ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Gary mate.. one solution to all of the issues you might have is to do away with this OH? Gauge malarky and return to oh oh... just a thought :scratchchin:

    Ian vt
     
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