On SRman's Workbench

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by SRman, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I have long held a dislike of Hornby's own DCC decoders (their Sapphire excepted), so when I purchased the Peckett W4 saddle tank loco, I declared at the outset that I would use something different, even if it meant hard-wiring it. Unfortunately, Hornby are the only manufacturer offering a 4-pin decoder. I never took photos of that conversion, so when I received Hornby's Sentinel diesel shunter, I resolved to treat it the same way.

    The decoders I favoured for these conversions were TCS M1 (2-function) or M4 (4-function); they cost me the same at the time I bought them and the shop had run out of M1s. I doubt that I'll use the functions in the short-term, but if I ever get brave later I might fit lights, firebox glows ... that sort of thing! These decoders are smaller than the Hornby one, so they actually fit in the places provided with room to spare.

    I did have a brainwave, though, and decided to retain the 4-pin socket and use the 'blanking plug' to connect the decoder by the relatively simple expedient of replacing the two looped wires and soldering in the correct decoder wires. Hornby have wired the plugs so that the track feed wires are on the outer pins and the brush feeds on the inner ones, so even if the plug is accidentally (or deliberately) reversed, no harm will come to the decoder.

    The metal sockets can be slid out of the plastic shell by lifting the little plastic tags. This allows the Hornby wires to be removed - I just cut mine off flush but you can choose any method you like to get rid of them.

    After this, the decoder wires were soldered on, using the end tags on the metal bits to clamp the wires in place as well.

    Then the assemblies can be slid back into their respective sockets, ensuring that they are correctly positioned - black - grey - orange - red.

    Spare wires on the decoders were cropped short and secured with a bit of heat-shrink tubing.

    The idea worked well with the Peckett, making it easy to restore to DC or swap decoders later if desired. However, the Sentinel wasn't as cooperative, and I ended up stripping it completely and rewiring it, including hard-wiring the decoder. The photos show how it all worked for the Peckett, and how it could have been for the Sentinel.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ​[​IMG]
     
  2. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Having previously described modifying the plug and wiring for fitting non-Hornby decoders to the Hornby Huntley & Palmers Peckett W4 and Sentinel diesel shunter, I failed to take a photo of the decoder actually in place to show just how easily the TCS M1 fits inside. Being smaller than the Hornby 4-pin decoder, there is room to spare, so I use a small blob of Blu-Tack to stop the decoder moving around.

    Having just received a second Peckett, this time the Peckett pale green Dodo, I went through the same process again, only this time it took half the time to do and came out a little neater as well.

    ​The blue, white and yellow wires are neatly bundled out of the way with a spot of heat-shrink tubing. If I ever want to add lighting or other functions, the wires are still available for use.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    That's a very neat job Jeff, makes you wonder though, why couldn't Hornby have kept things 'standard' and used a 6 pin decoder........would have been much simpler and surely there would have been sufficient space, looking at your pics. I'm not sure which way Hornby are going nowadays, building loco's with no thought of sound fitting (their Class 71's spring to mind!), using non-standard plugs in others, not to mention their not infrequent 'mistakes' regarding correct marking of pin 1 at decoder sockets and instances of decoders up in smoke because of incorrect socket wiring. It all seems like desperate measures just aimed at getting models on the market as fast as possible without too much thought or QC to me. No wonder Hornby seem to be going "down the pan!"
    Keith.
     
  4. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Yes, my thoughts too, Keith.

    I have commented to friends and fellow modellers that they could easily have used a 6-pin socket in the space available, giving modellers a much wider choice of decoders, not to mention better quality decoders than their own.
     
  5. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    That's probably the crux of the matter Jeff, by using a non-standard plug, they know that modellers with little or no DCC skills other than the ability to do a straight swap will have no choice but to use Hornby's 'own brand' decoder, and it's doubtful that other decoder manufacturers will be bothered about making a 'special' 4 pin version for a model that would have limited sales worldwide compared to their setup costs. I still think Hornby will shoot themselves in the foot by going down this route......another thought occurs to me, what about NMRA accreditation?????
    Keith.
     
  6. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I have been working on an original form Merchant Navy locomotive sporadically over the last few years, but am making an effort to complete it before the new Hornby model of 35023, Holland Afrika Line, arrives, probably in June.

    The chassis was adapted from a Hornby rebuilt MN, with Hornby's air smoothed West Country/Battle of Britain connecting rods and cylinder assemblies. I hard-wired a DCC Concepts Z218 decoder to it with its 8-pin plug cut off.

    The Golden Arrow Productions MN tender body was a bit flat-sided so I had to file and sand it to a better profile. I suspect I may need to take around a millimetre off the bottom edges too, as it still seems to sit a fraction too high.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This was followed by some final fettling and adjustments to the locomotive body. When I removed the front fairings from ahead of the cylinders, I took a little too much material off, so have added a strip of plastic micro-strip to each side, then a bit of filler, followed by filing and sanding back once the filler had set. There were a couple of other places on the body and at the cab/firebox joint that needed filling, too.

    Once all that set, I filed it all smooth again, then repainted. The body and tender still require a little more finishing as the paint surface is just a little rougher than I would like. The photos take us to the current status. Once I have finalised the finishes, I can add lining and names and numbers. My current thinking is for 35027, Port Line, but I could still change my mind.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Brave man ..... major surgery there. :avatar: I'll look forward to seeing the end result.:thumbs:
    cheers
    toto
     
  8. Retired operator

    Retired operator Full Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Hi Jeff. I have got the same idea, but, it seems that I shouldn't have bothered. I have heard some tales about the waist panelling being too shallow for LSWR carriages. And Terry Gough got it wrong, Other pre Grouping Southern conversions are more suitable . Although I have been thinking about other plans including a Joint LSWR along with the GWR, or the idea Ron had with a Heritage Line, where you could run anything you like?
    All the best. Kevin
     
  9. Ron

    Ron Full Member

    Messages:
    3,342
    Likes Received:
    788
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Hi Kevin, although you could run whatever you like on a heritage line, I chose the North Norfolk railway in particular because I liked the loco's and rolling stock on that line. I have most of the loco's they use and as I've seen photographs of visiting loco's like A3 Tornado and Class 66's, 59's and 20's I've still got some collecting to do!! I must admit though that the Adams Radial has never visited the NNR, I just like the loco!!:)
     
  10. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    And why not. It's a fine loco. :thumbs:
     
  11. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,536
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Another good thing about modelling a heritage line, is you can go visit, photograph and measure to your hearts content, plus there is so much on line, any detail you need is usually there!

    Pete.
     
  12. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    With the arrival of Hornby's new Merchant Navy, 21C3 Royal Mail, in original original form (a model I never intended getting, but the price I bought it for was too good to pass up), plus the further work on my kit-built original in slightly later form, I have gone off on a Merchant Navy kick! I did an inventory of all the rebuilt versions I have from Hornby to work out which ones still required DCC fitting, bearing in mind that all the ones with sockets had already been done. I found three models still not converted, all to be hard-wired jobs.

    I started off today with 35021, New Zealand Line. I found a suitably small decoder with (apparently) 4 functions, which I'll probably not use, but it was stored in among some Hornby decoders. I haven't identified it yet as the MN had very dirty wheels and wouldn't give me a reliable reading at the time (I got three different readings for the manufacturer code!). I'll put it back on the programming track later and try again, having cleaned the wheels and successfully programmed the address. There is not a lot of room in these MNs so a small decoder like a TCS M1/M4 is required.

    In the meantime, 21C3 also had a decoder fitted, a straight 8-pin plug in to the tender, using a DCC Concepts Z218 decoder.

    Both have been run successfully around the layout with coaches in tow, and have been posed for their portrait shots for the records.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There are two more rebuilt MNs to be fitted, currently numbered and named 35023 Holland Afrika Line and 35024 East Asiatic Company, although I will be renaming and renumbering a couple of existing rebuilt models. 35027 Port Line (already decider-fitted) is a candidate for renaming to 35029 Ellerman Lines or 35013 Rotterdam Lloyd, with a 5100 gallon tender fitted (I have checked the polarity of the coupling and it works with 35027, but shorted on one of the others - it would be nice if Hornby had been consistent with their wiring on these models). This would be its second renaming as it started off as a duplicate Clan Line, 35028!

    To round all this off, I already have rebuilt 35005, Canadian Pacific, in blue (authentic for preservation only), 35012, United States Lines, and 35028, Clan Line, in rebuilt form, and unrebuilt 35023, Holland Afrika Line, with sound on order. A couple of older photos follow.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also have a non-runner 35028 in original form from an unsuccessful Millholme kit. I will try to shoehorn a Hornby chassis into the white metal body and get that running eventually. It looks great, but goes nowhere!
     
  13. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    There's me deciding I have enough loco's Jeff, and you go and show us all those beautiful MN's to set me off again! I did really fancy the Canadian Pacific in blue, but I gather it was only blue for a short time around 1955, so too early for my layout era. So many loco's, so little time!!!
    :giggle:

    Keith.
     
  14. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Hi Keith. In rebuilt form, Canadian Pacific was never in blue while in BR service, although she looks superb in the blue with white/black/white lining, IMHO.

    In original air-smoothed form, most of the Merchant Navies (all bar three of them) were in blue for a few years, between 1951 and 1953, from memory.

    There were a couple of experimental blue liveries tried out around 1948/9, but the blue from the early 1950s was the official express passenger livery applied only to class 8P locomotives (Princess Coronations, Princess Royals, Kings, A3/A1/A4 and MN).

    Much as it suited most of those types (I would question whether it suited the ex-GW Kings, though), the blue pigment was rather unstable, so after around 1953 all passenger locomotive types of 6P, 7P and 8P were painted in the green with orange/black orange lining. Even then, the Bulleid pacifics of all classes had a special variation on the lining, with no gap between the orange and the black on the locomotive side casings, making the orange bolder and more prominent.

    EDIT: the first BR blue one was 35024 in 1949, while the last blue repaint was in 1951. The last blue one to be repainted green was in 1953.
     
  15. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Beautiful loco's Jeff and you have the space to let them rip. :thumbs:
    cheers
    toto
     
  16. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Yes, I must admit I have a weakness for the MNs!

    Another Merchant Navy converted this morning. I am having some difficulty because of the longish spells of standing, since I had a heavy fall a few weeks ago, landing on my hip and taking some of the impact on my shoulder and neck, which means that by the end of the wire stripping and soldering sessions, I am getting quite shaky. However, it all works in spite of the hand shakes while soldering the last few connections!

    This time I have selected 35023, Holland Afrika Line, a locomotive I bought second-hand with a few 'enhancements', such as a rather nice firebox/ashpan moulding and Kadee couplings added at both ends. I have swapped tenders, with Port Line receiving a 5100 gallon version pending a renaming, and the weathered 6000 gallon tender from that locomotive going to Holland Afrika Line. This tender also has the coal space opened out (something I should do to some of the other 6000 gallon tenders too), and real coal added. The reason for the swap is that the tender it now has has got Hornby tension lock couplings rather than the Kadee. The polarity of the connections were compatible on both locomotives.

    To show the style of conversion, here are a couple of photos of the finished job before replacing the body. This one used a TCS M1P decoder with the 8-pin plug cut off. As a part of all of these DCC conversions I have replaced the wires from the electrical connections on the locomotive's tender drawbar with longer wires. With the previous one I tidied all the connections up and shrank the heat-shrink tubing before checking the brush polarity, so ended up having to use CV29 to reverse the locomotive's direction of travel, but with this one I checked first ... I got it wrong initially so swapped the two brush feed wires (orange and grey).

    The body is a very tight fit over the motor and gear tower, so I had to reroute the orange wire lower down the side of the motor after the photos were taken, and also watch the red wire coming up through the chassis at the front end - that wire has to have some slack and also has to go over the top of the decoder, not to the side as in the photo. Yes, it really is that tight!

    Anyway, having tested all was well, some duct tape was used to secure most of the wiring to the motor and gear casings, and the body replaced.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And here are the usual (obligatory?) posed portrait shots of 35023 in service.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Yet another rebuilt Merchant Navy has finally been converted to DCC. Like the other recent ones, I have used a TCS M1 decoder hard-wired in. This time, it's my last unfitted Hornby MN, 35024, East Asiatic Company. The conversion went smoothly, since I had so much practice with the previous ones, although just to be really annoying, I tested it, put it all back together, tested again and one side's connecting rod and expansion link dropped off; the retaining screw had gone missing. I couldn't find the missing screw, but I knew that 12BA screws fit the thread, so shortened one to fit. It doesn't look very good in bare brass (I'll blacken it later), but it works.

    Here are my, by now, usual portraits of 35024 in service.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Terrific, how many of these do you have in your fleet ? I could look at these all day. Really nice. http://www.click
     
  19. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    You may have already guessed this, but I have a weakness for the Merchant Navies!

    :avatar: :avatar:

    I have six Hornby rebuilt versions, now all on DCC. Those are 35005, 35012, 35021, 35023, 35024 and 35027 (currently).

    I have three Hornby-based MNs in original air-smoothed forms (even those are in various guises as they were modified dramatically over the first few years. 21C3 (later 35003) in truly original form, 35023 to come in the near future in 1950s form, and as yet unnamed/numbered Golden Arrow Productions kit on a Hornby chassis (probably to become 35027, with the rebuilt one to give up its nameplates and become 35029).

    There are two more in air-smoothed form that aren't included in my normal running stock lists. Many years ago I made a Merchant Navy body out of two Airfix (later Dapol) plastic Battle of Britain kits. I cut each side through the firebox to create a longer firebox area when recombined (that was four sides made into two longer ones). I also reshaped the sides to widen the base a little, added strips to the smoke deflectors to make them deeper/bigger, and did some panel beating on some brass sheet to create new tender sides. All of this was mounted on an old, cheap Hornby Dublo/Wrenn west country chassis and tender I had bought second-hand, with the valve gear already hacked into the form I needed without the walschaerts bits. This locomotive was painted blue (a shade I mixed myself to approximately match the BR early blue) and lined with LNER white/black/white strips. This one became 35015, Rotterdam Lloyd.

    The final one is a never completed Millholme white metal kit. I was never able to get the chassis to run acceptably (never my strong point!), so I finished the body and tender in full BR green as 35028, Clan Line and left it on the display shelves for ever after. I did buy a spare Hornby light pacific chassis with a view to eventually modifying the body to fit on that, but it has remained on the back burner. It may still eventually happen.

    I don't have too much of a problem with duplicated names and numbers between the original and rebuilt ones as there were only a few years where the two forms could be seen side by side, with Clan Line being the last to be rebuilt, in 1959.

    I do also have quite a few of the Bulleid light pacifics in various guises, but they never quite had the 'presence' of the MNs, IMHO.
     
  20. SRman

    SRman Full Member

    Messages:
    895
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    For Tom: the conversion referred to in the previous post, with two Airfix bodies hacked into one and Wrenn chassis.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page