Part of yet another project.

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by Keith M, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Doubtless many members will feel like myself that Politicians of whatever Party in general nowadays give no reason to respect or 'look-up' to them, but during the early part of my lifetime at least, one man in my estimation stood above them all, and that was Sir Winston Churchill, not everyone's cup of tea maybe, but to me at least, a worthy Politician. Given that, I've been keeping an eye out for the Hornby 'Limited Edition' of either the complete "Winston Churchill's funeral train" or at least one of the equally 'Limited Edition' NRM Battle of Britain loco's of that name. One or two of the sets occasionally appear on Ebay, usually around the £250 mark, loco's anything around £120+, and I've managed to get hold of one of the loco's (delivery due shortly) so that's a start. I bought what I thought was a suitable luggage van kit cheaply at Doncaster Toy & Train Fair, though it turned out that this was not the correct van that carried the coffin, but a few days ago, I won one of the correct one's in Malachite Green on Ebay, so another spray job in the offing soon. As it was 'New/Old stock' it came with the 'orrible plastic wheels, so they've got to go for a start, and I'll need decals too after a repaint into Pullman livery. I already have a good number of Pullman coaches, so there may well be some renaming/renumbering of those in the near future, but here's the 'Van Victim'!

    IMG_1839.JPG
     
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  2. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    I
    I didn’t realise the van was also in Pullman colours... I thought it was green... so I’ve learnt something today! :thumbs:
    Quick google... [​IMG]
     
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  3. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Just doesn't look right tho', never thought I'd say I prefer Malachite green ...... so I've learnt something new as well :avatar:

    Paul
     
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  4. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    The van was specially painted to match the all-Pullman coach Funeral train for the occasion, wether it went back to either Malachite or BR/SR Green in service for a time afterwards I don't know, but like the loco, it was earmarked for preservation, and I was lucky enough to see it and the loco "Winston Churchill"at the Shildon NRM about 18 months ago. I received model loco this morning, and since it was a "Limited Edition" a few years back, it's not "DCC Ready" although it has the 5 pole can motor in the loco so an easy conversion in due course. Fox Transfers do all the Pullman coach names of those used on the train which I understand were in order from the loco "Car No 208", then the "Hearse van" No S2464, "Carina", "Lydia", "Perseus" and finally "Isle of Thanet brake car. Note also that the van is a 'Gangwayed Luggage Van.
    I did notice though that there is a difference between the van I have and the "Hearse van" and that is the centre pair of doors have a window in each, whereas my model doesn't, so some modification will be called for to add these in before spraying. So far I've only found the "Pullman Cream" paint in 'Precision Paints' enamel (dull finish) whereas I'm looking for acrylic paint. The "Pullman Brown" looks about the same as "GWR Brown" so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll be making a start on the van shortly.
    Keith.
     
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  5. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Interesting stuff. There was an article about doing the same recently in Model Rail magazine. I do look forward to seeing the final set.:thumbs:
     
  6. MalcT

    MalcT Full Member

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    Hi Keith, is the Humbrol RC416 Pullman Cream and Humbrol RC415 Pullman Umber Brown what you're looking for?
    In stock here:https://www.trainshop.co.uk/rail-ac...MIrtSgi8i95wIVQbDtCh3YMw22EAQYASABEgLZKvD_BwE

    Malc
     
  7. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for that Malc, I'm off to the Doncaster show this Sunday so I'll see if any traders have got these paints. Would these be enamel or acrylic then as I prefer not to use enamels as I spray with an airbrush and it's too much hassle (and stink!) using and cleaning up afterwards?
    Keith.

    Ignore that comment, just checked and it says 'Acrylic'.:thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  8. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I've modified the 2 central doors on each side to include a window in each, done by drilling a rectangle of 1mm holes, joining up and filing out, then making 'frames' for each window from microstrip. Not too much difficulty but the fun part will be creating the 'window bars' on the clear glazing material to match the ones on the existing windows. It may be possible to create and print these on a Windows PC, but as I use a Mac.........!
    Anyway, here's the modified coach ready for primer.

    IMG_1844.JPG
     
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  9. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    And after a quick waft over with the primer. Now I need the top coat colours, Doncaster show, here I come!

    IMG_1845.JPG
     
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  10. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Not managed too much progress on this project mainly due to the wet and windy weather which means I'm not able to put the extract hose from my spray booth out of the Velux window due to wind blowback and rain dripping down onto the layout. I have been working on the vans interior, removing all the pegs and ribs which originally held the glazing in place, and making a new flat full length floor to replace the original stepped one. I managed a quick blowover with white primer on the interior and the upper part of the outside, both of which will be finish sprayed with with Humbrol "Pullman Cream" which I managed to get hold of (and the "Pullman Brown!") at the Doncaster show last weekend, but further spraying is on hold until better weather returns. With the lower outside part masked, here's where it's up to now.

    IMG_1853.JPG
     
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  11. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    In between times, I've DCC converted the "Winston Churchill" Battle-of-Britain loco I bought recently, this being one of the earlier 'Pre-DCC Ready' loco's, painted and fixed the crew in position, real coal added and a No 20 Kadee to the tender, so that's the first item in the "Winston Churchill's Funeral Train" I'm attempting to create. This was the easy bit!

    IMG_1852.JPG
     
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  12. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Having researched the makeup of the train, I know the Pullman coach names and Car No 208 (the first car in the train), but then the fun starts as neither Hornby, Bachmann or to my knowledge anyone else makes or has ever made the exact "K Type all-steel" Pullmans required, so I am now beginning to look around for suitable Pullmans to modify (which will involve some "Cut-& Shut" operations to create the correct window and Guards door profiles), so this project may take some time, money and loss of hair (not that I've a lot left to start with!:giggle:) . Despite Hornby having made a "Winston Churchill Funeral Train" set, both the hearse van and the supplied coaches are not correct, they've just used existing Pullmans and renamed them, something of an 'Artistic Licence' it seems, cashing in on the event, since the price was over £200 and occasionally one surfaces on Ebay, usually around £250 or more and in fact there is one Ebay seller with the Hearse van currently asking £80+........a sound reason for my modifying my own!
    I've decided that If I'm going to model this train, then I'll either do it properly and accurately or not bother, so as the search begins for suitable Pullmans, I've so far sourced two, which will give me something to work with whilst I keep an eye out for the other three.......watch this space!:avatar:
     
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  13. Robyn

    Robyn Full Member

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    Wow, what an interesting read. It is quite amazing to see the research you have put in to this project and the determination to accurately portray the prototype. I am keen to see how this all comes together.
     
  14. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Here you go Keith, you may have seen this already.

     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    And here is the van converted to a hearse.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    Nice project Keith.

    Could I suggest using Scalescenes 'Scaleglaze' for the window bars. These, if you haven't seen them are printed white bars on clear acetate. You may find something for your project here : https://scalescenes.com/scaleglaze/

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  17. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Having spent some time researching the Pullmans, I found on RMWeb some illustrations that a guy in New Zealand had done showing side profiles of all the cars which he had modified on the PC to show the correct window/door setups, so "all"(!) I have to do is look out for and buy the cars with the same basic window layout, then modify as necessary. This involves changing oval toilet windows to more square or rectangular, and windows in the guards doors from oval to rectangular, plus odd roof repaint operations........sounds simple, but we'll see. I already have a number of Pullmans but I've already re-worked these with a full complement of passengers, internal lighting etc, so I'm not intending using these for this project, I'll start from scratch with either new or whatever I can find in 'pre-owned'. I'll need some more passengers in suitable 'Funeral attire' too!:giggle:

    Keith.
     
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  18. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I predict at York Show on your shopping list you will hive needle files, Pullman coaches, lots more Raw Umber paint, and lots of other bits and bobs to get all this scratch work underway:avatar:. Seriously tho Keith this is a great project.:thumbup::tophat:
     
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  19. Bo-Bo

    Bo-Bo Full Member

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    Keith your research into the carriage hearse is very interesting and it’s great reading your posts.
    The carriage is looking really good.:tophat:
     
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    A little further research you may find of interest concerning the Churchill Hearse van.

    This van S2464S started out in life in 1910 as a London South Western Railway 48' non corridor lavatory third number 2464, in 1931 this coach was withdrawn from passenger service and rebuilt at Lancing Works as a Gangwayed Bogie Luggage Van. The Southern Railway deemed that the frames were in too good condition to scrap as was much of the upper body framework skeleton and thus the frames were extended to a length of 53' 5" with the insertion of new main bearers... probably an early case of cut and shut, likewise the body receiving gangway connections and complete new sides in the style of the Southern's Van C type was extended to a length of 56' 11", the total tare weight of these rebuilt vans was 28 tons. We can only assume the livery was either Southern Olive or Malachite Green but during its use on BR it would have been painted Southern Stock Green or Light Brunswick, the van now numbered S2464S under the British Railway pre nationalised stock identity scheme was used to carry pigeons and fresh vegetables. On getting its makeover into Pullman Cream and Umber in 1965 to carry Churchill's body to Handborough station the van received further internal modifications which I presume involved the additional fitting of windows to the centre pair of doors and removal of the handbrake column. Churchill was buried alongside his parents at Bladon churchyard.

    S2464S ended her service days being exported to America as a tourist exhibit to the Pacific Palms Resort in Los Angeles where it drew much attention until 2010 when repatriation to the Swanage Railway and later full restoration in 2014 occured. Of interest locomotive 34051 Sir Winston Churchill has the accolade of being the very last steam locomotive to be used in a State funeral. Hope this adds a bit of additional interest to your model project Keith.
     
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