Point Frogs

Discussion in 'Hand built track' started by Peter K, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Does anyone know where I might find tight-ish radius point frogs?
     
  2. hartleymartin

    hartleymartin Full Member

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    Ready-made? What scale?
     
  3. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Ready-made frogs for N or 00. Essentially so that I can save money on points.
     
  4. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I have no clue about pointwork except, if you mean making your own, then I would have thought the making the V of a frog (essentially chamfering two rails and soldering together) would be easier than tapering down the moving rails and letting in to the side rails!
    I do know making bespoke pointwork is very big in the USA, with many suppliers including premade rails/chairs/sleepers. (probably mostly code 80 though)
    Have a look at the list of supplier links under track, on my website Links page.
     
  5. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Yes, precisely the 'Vees' you are talking about. Just need them filed so that I can solder onto sleepers. Peco do O gauge versions in their Individulay range.

    Essentially C&L's point vees but cheaper...
     
  6. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    I agree with Timber - making the V is the easiest part of the turnout.
     
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Here you are Peter... https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/Rail-Products-c32279029 , however I think price for price these represent better value than the stuff from the Peco parts range which is mainly the only other supplier of spare parts for turnouts.

    these are 4mm scale, he doesn't appear to have his 2mm stuff ready for sale as yet so I guess its still in development. He also does templates to aid setting out your crossing work but you will need to know the radius of your turnout... you probably know this anyway so apologies if so. I know this trader who may not always be the easiest to contact but his products are top range quality, just beware that C&L rail is slightly thicker than the equivalent code stuff but we are only talking a few thou. If you buy from this source best ask for a turnout Crossing Vee and not a "frog" :(:confused: or you may well be directed to the nearest nature sanctuary with a big pond :avatar:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  8. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Thanks. The confusion regarding track elements seems to only increase. Apologies for the confusion.
     
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  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Please don't apologies Peter for such, the term "frog" was/still is used by modellers to denote the crossing Vee on a turnout (pair of points), crossing Vees are also used on Diamond crossovers, inside and outside slips and anywhere one set of rails intersect with an opposing line or track. Peter Llewellyn who formerly owned C&L was quite pedantic in getting terminology correct and so his products were always reffered to by their correct title, a practice continued with the current owner ... all a bit of a minefield it seems but not to worry. I suspect the model railway term "frog" originated from back in the days of tin plate and ultra coarse scale where trains would appear to jump across the rails on pointwork crossing Vee's due to the larger size gaps and such, a practice now long gone because we have super finescale track construction in all scales.

    Just for interest the Vee consists of two rails plained together on their ends, the plained rail which sits inside the other plained rail is called the Splice Rail and the the plained rail with a "blunt nose end" is referred to as the Point Rail, the length of plaining is determined by the angle of intersection, e.g the angle of the crossing Vee which matches the angle of plaining on the Switch rails which are located at the toe end of a pair of points. Both these angles fit together in pairs to make a Natural angle turnout, (the turnout is the track which diverges from the main or straight route on a pair of points. So natural angles are 1 in 6 for tight turnouts, 1 in 8 for goods lines and 1 in 10 and above for passenger lines, an odd angle turnout such as a 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 is called a transition turnout because the both angles are not of equal radius proportions. All very complex to get to know but these same principles apply to the larger scales in model railways.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  10. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Well, I have only ever seen one train jump off the rails at a turnout and that was on Hornby setrack with their Pendolino while being fed 15v for a laugh by a young member of my family.

    Thanks once again for the clarification.
     
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  11. hartleymartin

    hartleymartin Full Member

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    Really, it is quite easy to make your own crossing V using a small metalworking vice, a couple of home-made jigs and a couple of warding files.
     
  12. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Hello All,

    there was an article in Hornby Magazine, Issue 137 , November 2018 re "Simple Soldered Turnouts" ( pp 36-41 ) by Nigel Burkin where he used the Canadian made Frog Helper ( a jig to solder up crossing Vees ) and Point Former ( a filing jig to form the point on a point blade & to form the crossing angle on rail to accurately assemble your crossing Vee ).

    The company trades as Fast Tracks ( www.handlaidtrack.com ) and also makes jigs for various types of points. Although intended for HO and N flatbottom ( Vignoles ) rail, Nigel Burkin has used these Fast Track jigs for EM / 18.2 mm bullhead track.

    The Point Former Jig is available in a number of angles ( expressed as a ratio, ie 1:6 etc ) ( for EM 1:6 is the recommended sharpest angle to use ) and is probably the first jig you should consider buying.

    Fast Tracks also offer a number of other suitable items worthy of a look. Their website is quite comprehensive, and worthy of a read in its own right.

    Usual disclaimer, I have no financial or commercial interest in the firm.

    On a different, but related matter, I was recently informed by an O Gauge / 7 mm Scale Victorian Railways / VR modeller that Peco's current O Gauge turnouts are a very close match to the old VR standard.

    Best wishes and regards, Echidna
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  13. Peter K

    Peter K Full Member

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    Thanks
     

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