Realistic Timetabling

Discussion in 'Running Your Trains' started by Tallpaul70, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    My favoured method of generating a timetable is to start with the WTT (Working Time Table) for either the actual line if modelling a real line/location, or for a similar real location to my dream location, for the actual or a near year to that which I am modelling.

    I then look at the trains that ran and try to understand what the location is all about.
    For instance, is it a rural branch line, a secondary cross country route, a mainline with or without local/suburban trains etc.
    Next I look for any trains that define the line, such as interesting freight flows, or passenger flows.

    My current timetable is around Maidenhead on the WR mainline out of London in 1962.
    The first concession I have had to make is to run two lines instead of the actual 4 because that is all I have room for!
    Interesting trains here include the Parcels train that arrives travelling East from Reading just before 6AM, drops and picks up vans, then runs round and departs West up the branch line to High Wycombe.
    Further interest is that there is no return train from the branch. The various parcels vans (or their empty/full swaps), return to Maidenhead one by one or two on various branch passenger trains through the day.
    Then around 8PM a loco arrives travelling west from Slough and marshals these vans together then departs west to Reading.
    So to run this sequence I need two sets of parcels vans.

    Now to really understand such workings you need a relevant Coach Workings Book and a Locomotive Working Book, as they contain details that are not shown in the WTT.

    If folks would like me to post more details of how I work out such a timetable, I will, when time permits post more thoughts illustrated by my Maidenhead timetable?

    Best regards
    Paul
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  2. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I'd be interested Paul, at the moment I run a made up timetable and my DCC handset at x7 the time rate. My layout is based on Weybourne station on the North Norfolk railway.
    (I do have access to their timetables)
     
    Tallpaul70 likes this.
  3. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hi Ron,

    What follows is a personal preference, at the end of the day, its your railway so you should run it as you like, but I do not favour speeding up.

    The reason I say this is that say a shunting move takes 14 minutes. A 7 times speed up means it has to be completed in 2 minutes! So say the move is engine leave a siding, runs round a string of wagons and shunts them into two sidings. The original 14 minutes allows good time for drawing out of the siding, onto the mainline, off the mainline into the loop, changing points, running onto the wagons, coupling up, backing into the siding 1, uncoupling, drawing forward, change the points ,back into the second siding, uncouple from wagons.
    This is a lot to do in 2 minutes!
    I favour running the movements in real time, but reduce the interval between movements. This needs to be done carefully so that all the movements do not rush one after the other!
    I am not familiar with the North Norfolk area, but if Weybourne has any terminating or starting trains, I would try to get access to the Carriage working and Loco working books for the details they may contain. Stock may have been stored there, or bought in as empty stock. Unfortunately WTTS do not always show all the empty stock and locomotive movements.

    I will try to continue my timetable development saga with the example of my Maidenhead table later tomorrow.

    Best regards
    Paul
     
  4. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Thanks Paul, I take your point on time-speeding. I don't do much shunting apart from Loco changes at the station which is a through station but has Loco and goods facilities.
    I watch this thread with interest, thhanks again.

    Ron
     
    Tallpaul70 likes this.
  5. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Hi Ron,
    I agree, I am not a great shunter, it is too easy to shunt without purpose, when the real railway shunts, it has a purpose!
    Mainly my shunting is detaching/ attaching wagons from/to a train and then placing them in the right siding. Occasionally I move the string of vans in the goods shed line along to be unloaded/loaded.

    I looked up Weybourne in my pre grouping maps as I was not sure of its location. It sounds a good place to model as the M&GN was a great railway (I am a fan of the S&DJ, but have never got to model it). You also have the chance to include the modern preserved North Norfolk Railway!

    Getting back to timetabling:-
    The first decision is which season is the timetable to be in?. This may already be set by factors such as the trees on the layout are in full leaf, so winter is out! However in some areas winter timetables have less trains than the summer ones, so if the relevant WTTs are available, winter may be a good stating point for a first timetabling attempt.

    The second decision is which day of the week to timetable. I favour weekdays, but once I am happy with the weekday timetable, I will do a Saturday timetable, which may require more passenger trains and less suburban and goods trains but is a good excuse to run your favourite out of area train as an excursion, or run steam in what is a diesel era layout! Not something you need worry much about with the North Norfolk Railway!

    I then divide the day into three 8 hour periods. Maybe 04.00-12.00, 12.00 - 20.00, and 20.00 - 04.00 (morning afternoon and night). I then look to timetable a running session for the morning, and one for the afternoon, each lasting about 2 hours. I usually forget the night shift as this needs extra goods trains, and more specialised passenger rated stock such as sleeping cars and Postal vans. I do have these, but to use them I have to take other stock off and load this stock on. Added to which I think you need plenty of lights around the layout and on the locomotives and stock, so you can turn the main lights off and run in the dark. Effective, but altogether too much hassle except for an occasional change!
    Why two hours? It is just a running session that suits me. Everyone should choose a length of session that suits them!

    However, you have to be sure before writing up the timetable that your chosen start and end times for the periods do not coincide with a busy period in the timetable, so often I have to make the session slightly shorter or longer than 2 hours.
    Make sure your most complicated move is not just after you start a session. or just before you end it as those are the times mistakes are made.

    So how do I fit 8 hours timetable into two real hours?
    I save time by running up and down trains so they pass through the scenic area at the same time, rather than perhaps 20 minutes apart.
    I reduce the time interval between trains, but always remember that while you can have an express catching up a slower goods, once an express passes , it must be a while before a slower train can come by, unless you are modelling a location just past where 4 tracks or loops end and join into the main line.
    Unless you have a very large area for your layout, or the storage tracks of it, you will end up as I do running the same train as a number of different trains in the timetable. One of the skills is deciding how many times a given train can circuit the layout in a given timetable. This is particularly relevant with passenger trains. I save repetition with goods trains by dropping off and attaching wagons within the scenic area, so their appearance is altered.

    If your layout allows, another dodge is to do what the real railway does and run your trains in both directions. Here I am talking about round and round layouts, end to end layouts have to do this anyway. This does require strategically placed crossovers, and locomotive sidings so that a clockwise circuiting train can be reversed by attaching a fresh loco to the other end of the train, and then crossing from down line to up and circuit anti clockwise. Anyone operating a Dog Bone layout can, of course do this more easily!

    Do not worry if your first attempt fails because it takes too long to run, or is too short. Just look at the movements and maybe take a train out, or add one in. Also you can always adjust a shunting period. Although I have written up a number of these timetables, I usually end up making some sort of adjustment. What I do is to note down the trains I have decided to leave out as I go along and then if I am short at the end I have a list from which to add another one or two in.

    So here I have dealt with the basics of the timetabling, when I get an opportunity I will post the detail of setting up the timetable for my Nearly Maidenhead Layout.

    Hope this is of interest?

    Best regards
    Paul
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  6. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    This the present NNR timetable, just for interest.
    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

    jakesdad13 and Tallpaul70 like this.
  7. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Thanks Ron,
    I guess the layout of Weybourne is a lot less now than in the heyday of the M&GN?
    Cheers
    Paul
     
  8. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    IMG_0261.JPG

    IMG_0265.JPG No on the contrary, the main loco shed and engineering for the NNR is based at Weybourne, Sheringham and Holt are merely turnaround points although Sheringham is a bigger station.
     
    jakesdad13 and Tallpaul70 like this.
  9. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    So If you model modern day Weybourne you have to add the LE workings to the timetables you sent me, from there into and from Sheringham?
    Sounds good!
     
  10. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    LE ?? Also runs to Holt in the other direction..
     
  11. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Ron,
    I assumed that a steam engines leave the shed at Weybourne and runs light to Sheringham to start duty on the first steam departure say the 10.30 departure? Or are the carriages stabled at Weybourne as well, so that the engine also brings them in empty?

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  12. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Carriages stabled at Sheringham yes, loco's at Weybourne that's exactly how the day starts! :thumbup::thumbup:
     
    Tallpaul70 likes this.
  13. SBt

    SBt Full Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    458
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Could there be such a thing as Scale Time?
     
  14. Ron

    Ron Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Most DCC handsets have a system time facility, I use a X7 at the moment although I may change this and go with the NNR timetable..

    Ron
     
    Tallpaul70 likes this.

Share This Page