Route setting points to switch in sequence

Discussion in 'Other Electronic Interfaces' started by Toto, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. Wizmacnz

    Wizmacnz Full Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    My last layout had three close coupled double slips at the station throat. Originally just controlled in a simple switch and push button system. Setting them correctly was a nightmare. When I changed up to computer control, I could just select a route, say from main up line to platform 4, and the computer sets all the points correctly.

    The next step of using block occupancy prevented me from running into another train if the platform was already occupied. It also took away the potential for head on collisions, of which I'd had a few.

    You can still drive the trains, but it's one less thing to think about.

    Peter
     
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Thanks Peter,

    I think you have captured some distinct advantages of DCC control.

    Eventually, whilst I like the thought of setting routes etc, I'm happy to make it as easy as possible as on an end to end, everything happens that much quicker and there is less time to fumble with controllers between loco's and points. If a macro can be used to set up an array of three or four points to a predesignated route, it can only make running the layout less stressful and let you consentrate on the business of controlling the loco's.

    I'm with you.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  3. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,866
    Likes Received:
    5,929
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Hi Peter

    I'm where you are, I only have 4 points - a 3 way, double slip and two turnouts, 6 point motors in all, and found setting routes to make life so much easier, and using the wifi throttle facility within JMRI, allowing the routing table to be displayed on my mobile phone or tablet taking this flexibility even further.

    And block detection is next for me as well, but as I'm using the NCE powercab, I am limited on the number of Input units I can attach to the command station. To overcome the limitation of the PowerCab (remember this is an entry level system), I am going to use the MERG CBUS DCC system, utilising the CANUSB4 the usb interface, and CANACE8 input devices, these will have the block detection devices connected, and feed the status via the usb interface to JMRI, which in turn will carry out the processing, display etc and communicate with the powercab to issue any required commands.

    Paul
     
  4. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    4,246
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Sounds simple enough..???????....:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

    :avatar::avatar::avatar::avatar:

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  5. ed

    ed Full Member

    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    I can understand that with an exhibition layout or a large layout running multiple trains with only one operator, it may be necessary to automate point switching and/or signaling.

    I also agree that trying to change multiple points individually to set up a route, from the same handset that runs the locos would be difficult.

    Which really just proves my point (no pun intended) about a separate system to change the points and set the routes, whatever that may be.

    I'm probably just old fashioned, but for me the ideal setup if I had the space and money would be lever frames.

    For me, automating changing the points etc. takes away some of the interest in operating the layout and we might as well ......

    paul_l wrote:
    Many a true word spoken in jest ?

    :scratchchin:

    Ed
     
  6. Ron

    Ron Full Member

    Messages:
    3,341
    Likes Received:
    787
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    If you use an accessory decoder for point control, then it can be a lot of 'finger pressing' to set up a route of say 4 to 5 points. Much easier (on the fingers too!) to set a route up with just 3 or 4 button presses!!
    If you don't use encoders then I think you lose half the advantages of using DCC..
    Cheers
    Ron
     
  7. ed

    ed Full Member

    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    But just as easy to pull 3 or 4 levers, or press 3 or 4 switches Ron.

    Surely the main advantage of DCC (over DC) is you drive the train, not the track.

    You also have all the extra functions on the loco such as control of lights and sound.

    Ed
     
  8. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    4,246
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Just for the sake of interest and nothing else.

    I was changing two points and also two double slips today just to ensure I wasn`t seizing them up with ballast and glue.

    The two points allow a train to change from the UP main to the DOWN main. The levers are next to each other on the frame. I can pull the two levers with one finger simultaneously to select the route.

    The double slips are set up in a similar way, however there are two levers per slip. It`s the same thing again. The two levers pulled by one finger set the slip to diamond crossing configuration. Push both back and we have a straight through main line. Other routes require one or the other lever moved individually.

    For me.....it is quite satisfying throwing those levers.....firstly because I made them and they work and secondly because this type of operation was in play during the time period my railway is set in.

    I love technology but I think I like mechanical apparatus even more.!!!

    Ed and I will discuss it over a pint down the pub...:thumbs:....everyone else welcome too..:thumbs:

    http://www.click:tophat:Gormo
     
  9. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Horses for courses I think. We are all right ( and wrong ). I'd guess that the respective signalling could be wired into that as well. I've got a foot in each camp as I love the idea of " controlling " things but also like to build in a bit of technology as the features of tomorrow are built upon the foundations of what's possible today to some point. DCC will probably lend itself better into incorporation of what ever tomorrow brings more easily.

    Everyone to their own. Personally, my mind changes all the time. I used to be a bit indecisive .......... But now I'm just not sure.

    :scratchchin:

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    7,352
    Likes Received:
    3,908
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Well, it all sounds like it's a case of train drivers wanting to be signalmen... :lol: Easy answer, have two operators, one driving, one signalling... ;)

    I too like to throw the points manually, whether it's push button to solenoids or wire in tube, I am changing the route, and the dcc throttle is moving the train through at a very slow pace. I chose the DCC route as I wanted sound more so than functionality, ie setting routes etc.

    In the real world, the track route is set before the train leaves the platform and if its not, well, the train is held behind a signal until the road ahead is clear for passage...

    Last thing I want to do is think to myself, 'Have I set the route for this train hurtling into the scene...??' Crunch, too late...! :oops:

    But as Toto said, horses for courses...

    As a matter of interest, down at the Australian Model Railway Association (Sydney) clubroom, if your train is stabled in the yard and you wish to enter the main line, you have to pick up the phone and request a right of passage onto the main line through the signalman, sitting in the control room..., (yes, a real full blown control room with monitors, and the complete track plan, showing all signals and blocks, train movements etc). Once the lights come on, on the route indicator board, you are free to enter. Mind you they have a lot of technology under the layout running the whole show, including block detection, signalling and so on.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  11. Wizmacnz

    Wizmacnz Full Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Well this was the area on my old layout that drove me nuts before getting the computer to manage it all for me. I agree though that it is horses for courses. In a couple of other areas I had some relays installed to control track power and protect junctions from an incorrect combination of point settings. This area though had me eyeing up each point trying to make sure each one was set right. Also had to remember which point was set with which switch, or when the numbers didn't want to come to the forefront of my memory, referring back and forth to the track diagram. It certainly did away with any need to think about a fast clock.

    Peter

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Headache material :headbanger:
     
  13. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'll be looking at my ground signals again tomorrow after I've done some baseboard painting and track cleaning. First of all the positioning of them which probably not resemble any prototype but will function to a purpose.

    Then it's wiring them up to operate with the Cobalts and turnouts which should be straight forward enough as a stand alone exercise. I'll get it that far but also need to think a little further ahead to when route setting comes into play. It should still work OK as basically the route setting just operates the turnouts. As a consequence of wiring the ground signals to the available switches on the Cobalts, the ground signals should follow the route logic.

    Time to get the NCE destructions out to look at macro setting.

    I also need to consider how the unbuilt baseboard three will come into the route logic. If Luib Bridge is visiting the Elgin show this year, baseboard three will be brought into play very soon.

    Looking forward to this bit. :thumbs:

    Cheers

    Toto
     

Share This Page