I picked these wagons up about 18-20 years ago, from a deceased estate. They were offered to me, as my friend (friend of the deceased) knew I was into model railways. These two are from the Fleischmann 'American Range', dating back to 1960 - 1962. Fleischmann dropped the American range not long after, due to political differences/pressure... Have a good look at the couplers, seems quite familiar ?? How long did it take Hornby to produced a small tension lock coupler ?? The build quality on these models is far superior to any other models I own, and have owned. I have been informed that these are quite rare in my part of the world... Cheers, Gary.