To Isolate Or Not To Isolate, That Is The Question...

Discussion in 'DC Control' started by Gary, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    On the plan below, I'm having thoughts on whether the insulfrog single slip (lime green) should be isolated as a seperate section, or could it be part of the red section, leaving the individual sidings as seperate sections ??

    [​IMG]

    On the Peco instructions, it reads "On this slip the two frogs are electrically seperated from the rest of the rails, and in every situation their polarity needs switching using either PL-13 or PL-15 switches".

    The diagram below which comes with the above text, shows the single slip being isolated from the rest of the layout. I can understand this as if I were running by-directional trains, but this is only a plank with no passing loops, nor trains traveling in opposing directions at any one time.

    [​IMG]

    Looking at this diagram, I would say that it is for an 'electrofrog' slip and not an 'insulfrog' slip.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Gary

    I'd be tempted to have it as a permanently live self contained section. As you are not going to park anything on the slip as that would prevent any other movement, and the polarity of the V's are controlled via the point motors.

    I do find it strange as the insulfrog double slip, controls the polarity via the slip, with not switching.

    Paul
     
  3. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Paul,
    I was intending to have the slip as part of the red section as the diagram below. I can't see why I can't do this as the track polarity throughout the whole layout is controlled by the controller and not individual switches. The individual coloured sections will be either on or off.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  4. Sol

    Sol Full Member

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    Insulfrog slips do not need frog switching and I would have it connected to the red track as you suggest Gary in post #3.
    I assume you are talking DC? not DCC ?
     
  5. SRman

    SRman Full Member

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    I played safe with the double slip on my old layout and wired it as a separate section on its own. Having said that, there is no reason why you could not wire it into the same switch as the red section; still use double insulated rail joints but loop the wires from the red section to either side of the double slip.
     
  6. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    At the moment I have a RSD-4/5 that is dual mode (?), can be run on DCC and DC. The next couple of locos will be dual mode (Bachmann). I am wiring a switch into the system so that it can be run either DC or DCC. All the track sections will have an on/off switch, rather than a directional switch, ie forward/reverse.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Gary,

    Have you considered using your PL15 switches to activate relays. That would give greatly expanded wiring options.

    One relay can even activate another and so on potentially covering all possible polarity or section problems.

    They can even act as a failsafe in that...... say the blue section will not activate until the slip is set properly???

    Just a thought although I don`t know what implications it may have for DCC use.???

    http://www.click :tophat:Gormo
     
  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Gary

    The only issue I could see is if you are running more than 1 loco, and loco 1 is shunting between Green / Light Blue and Yellow, while loco 2 runs on Red / Orange and Grey sections, in DC loco 1 could not run as the slip is controlled by red.

    For DCC its not an issue as long as you have the appropriate insulation breaks for each V then the whole layout is one big section.

    Paul
     
  9. ed

    ed Full Member

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    Maybe one of those situations where it's easier with DCC ?

    Ed

    (PS and I didn't even mention 'it's only two wires' :avatar:)
     
  10. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    Ah yes, that's true regarding running two locos at once, but this should not happen. The way I see the V of the slip, is that they are electrically isolated being an insulfrog single slip.
    Jack and i have laid the track today and I'll be wiring it up shortly, then I check to find any faults. If there is, well then it's back to isolating the whole slip !

    This is how I have isolated the sidings, but used metal rail joiners to the slip from the red rails.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers, Gary.
     
  11. SMR CHRIS

    SMR CHRIS Staff Member Moderator

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    I think every one has covered ideas on the slip so my idea relates to powering the sections as 2 front yard and rear yard.

    Gary I would possibly split it in two with the slip,yellow, Blue and green as a a power section DC or power district DCC
    As a DC control use the isolating switches on the yellow blue green.

    Then have the Red lead and orange, Gray etc as another section/district
    Then when on DC control you have two operation Zones
    On DCC it will all be be powered up but could be as two power districts also helps with short finding if some thing goes wrong.

    Just a suggestion not sure if is clear or mud.
    I would make sure you have insulated joints in place at the start of track laying so you can keep your options open down the track.
    May mean a couple of extra wires in the short term but may pay in the future.
     
  12. jakesdad13

    jakesdad13 Staff Member Moderator

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    Without actually seeing the crossing, it appears from the instructions the V,s are electrically isolated from the rest of the crossing and require powering from the PL15,s so I don,t see any reason why the whole slip could not be included into the red section as long as there are insulating joiners between the slip and the other sidings.

    Pete.
     
  13. Gary

    Gary Currently Unemployed ! Staff Member Administrator

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    All advice taken onboard. Thankyou. :thumbup:

    Chris, I doubt that there will ever be more than one loco in operation at any one time. The three sidings that come off the slip are just that, sidings. Majority of time these will have either wagons parked up or being shunted back to the main line (red section).

    I trust that the pic below explains train movements a little easier ! ;);)

    [​IMG]

    Now, this pic below shows what I have done so far, and tonight I tested my DCC fitted RSD-4/5 through the slip from the red line (main line), backwards forwards, change of direction and across the slip in all directions that is capable. The good news is that the loco ran through without a hitch, glitch bump or grind. No sparks, no shorts !

    So, perhaps I won't need to isolate the slip from the rest of the layout, that is make it its own section.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers, Gary.
     

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