Who is recommended to replace Lima motors then chip the locos?

Discussion in 'Power Houses' started by Tallpaul70, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi All,

    I have around 20 Lima 00 diesels which would seem to be candidates for sale unless I can get their motors changed as I am going DCC and Sound.

    Unfortunately I am at the age where I do not have nimble enough fingers or good enough eyesight to do this myself.

    So I am looking for experiences/ recommendations on who is out there and can do this work?

    I would prefer to go to someone who can do the motors and install chips so that when I get a loco back that doesn't work I am not caught between the "its your motor install" and "its your chip install" shouting match!

    Many thanks
    Cheers
    Paul
     
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  2. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know of anyone who undertakes changing the Lima motors, but it's not a difficult job I can assure you (I'm 72, have "Sausage fingers" and my eyesight isn't what it was!), one I'm sure you would find within your capabilities. There is a guy on Ebay who advertises replacement motors complete with the toothed gear (He's actually in Finland) and each motor comes with full instructions and colour pics, so it really is a 'doddle' of a job to do, his price is very reasonable and delivery quick, so worth a try. You could just buy one and see how it goes before committing to more, DCC sound can come after you've mastered motor changes. The motors are I believe, from CD player drawer drives and are about 5 volts, so DCC is a safer way rather than applying upwards of 12 volts via a DC controller (which can be anything up to about 17 volts!), unless you add a sizeable resistor in circuit.
    Please note I have NO connection with this supplier other than as a satisfied customer of several motors.
    Keith.
     
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  3. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Thanks Keith,
    I have looked at the Strathpefferjunction site as a possible source of motors.
    Even if I decided to try doing a motor swap, there is no way I would consider trying to fit a £100 chip in a loco that has no socket fitted.

    So how do I test the motor installation?

    It seems to me I either have to find a suitable low voltage supply to test the motor, or pass the loco untested to my chip installer.

    While I have a good relationship with them, I don't want to incur more cost in them rectifying my mistakes!
    I will talk to them and see if they can do the motor swaps.

    Best regards
    Paul
     
  4. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    You can easily run the motor with (for example) a 6 volt battery, cheap and easy alternative. As it's DC, just change battery connection polarity to change motor direction.....sorted!:thumbup:

    Regarding fitting a DCC sound chip, are you wanting extra functions (lighting etc?) or just sound plus basic motor operation. Fitting a DCC decoder is very easy, all you do is disconnect the pickup wires, right hand track (looking as if in the leading cab) should be the red +ve wire, left hand track is the black -ve wire, these connect to red and black of the decoder input (sound or non-sound, they are both the same colours/connections), grey is -ve output wire to the motor, orange is +ve output wire to the motor, connect, programme and test, if the motor runs the wrong way just change over the grey and orange wires, job done! May I suggest that before you go buying pricey sound decoders, buy a basic non-sound DCC decoder, solder that in and set up/test the loco. If all is well, THEN you can go out and splash money on a sound decoder, safe in the knowledge that it won't go 'Pop'! I personally for non-sound installations, normally use the Chinese Laisdcc decoders, available via Ebay from a number of UK sellers for around a tenner, quite a small decoder, adequate current capacity for just about any 00 gauge loco, most with 3 or 4 switching functions for lighting etc, I've now fitted around 50 of these in my own loco's with zero failures, at that price, why pay more? If you can solder, (and it's a virtually essential skill for any railway modeller), then you can fit a DCC decoder! Do have a go, you'll be surprised at just how easy it is, honest!
    Keith.
     
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  5. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    I have fitted (non-sound) DCC decoders to all my Lima diesels, DMUs and Ex-GWR Railcars, so a warning, if they have brass wheel treads and not nickel silver plated they will dirty very quickly and DCC decoders will not like that at all, DCC needs very good conductivity.

    Combining traction tyres (dirt creators) with brass tread (dirt magnets and prone to oxidisation) is a futile battle to win.

    In the end I swapped out all the axle sets in my fleet of Lima diesel locos, DMUs and railcars for Ultrascale wheels, however this is costly even when buying DIY assembly wheels and there are long lead times for delivery, at least 6 months the last time I bought some.

    The second issue is that although the Ultrascale wheels will be complete with gear backs for the motor bogies, no tyres are available, this means that significant extra ballast was required for two reasons, (1) for decent rail contact for electrical pickups and (2) any worthwhile traction.

    Pickup assemblies I built up from DCC concepts unit and applied them to the unpowered axles, Ultrascale does provide drop in replacements for power pickup from the power bogie but the prices climb steeply.

    Also these axles sets need careful back to back setting if running on Peco code 100 or similar as their treads are very narrow.

    I kept the original motors in all of mine as they run really well.

    To summarise I would advise that only locos with plated wheels are converted to DCC, keep the original motors if they still run well, otherwise the upgrading will cost quite a bit before even choosing a decoder, which may need Stay-Alive.

    I considered replacing the locos with Heljan equivalents but their cost and build standards do not appeal and the Limas are part of my vintage fleet which I mix freely with the latest releases.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  6. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I can vouch for the Ultrascale wheels, I fitted a set of P4 replacement wheels to a Lima Class 20 back in the late 80's early 90's, it was then and still is a really smooth runner, and has been converted to DCC as well - I used a TCS T1, recommended by Bromsgrove Models as it has a higher current output, more suited for older models.

    Many decoders (8 pin) have jst connectors, to connect the loom to the 8 pin plug, these have a couple of advantages, easy to replace the decoder if it fails, and in your case, after fitting and testing with a cheaper decoder (a sacrifical goat - sorry Ian V), can then be swapped for the sound decoder.

    Ebay has several motor replacement kits

    Lima Replacement CD/Can Motor Adaptor Kit (10MM/Co-Co/37/47/52/Deltic/King) LA1
    Lima Replacement CD/Can Motor Adaptor Kit (12MM/Bo-Bo/26/33/HST/101/Railcar) LA2
    Lima Replacement CD/Can Motor Adaptor Kit (Class 08/09/Prairie/Pannier/J50) LA3
    Value Lima Replacement CD/Can Motor Upgrade Kit (9MM/CoCo/37/47/Deltic/King) LA5
    12V Lima Replacement CD/Can Motor Adaptor Kit (Bo-Bo/26/33/HST/DMU/Railcar) LA6

    Also of interest may be these
    3 x Replacement 8 Tooth Plastic Gear for Lima Ringfield CD or Can Motor Upgrade

    Diode Voltage Dropper Kit for Lima Hornby 6V CD Motor Conversion Replacement DD3
    the diodes are basically two pairs giving approx a 2V drop

    Paul
     
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  7. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Why do you need to change the motors?
     
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  8. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi Andy,
    The suggestion of replacing the motors started from my local model shop who have done good work on chips (standard and sound) on a number of locos and Units, but reported that Lima DMUs I asked them to chip took too high a current to be safe for the chips. We agreed that the one with the lowest current consumption would be done as a test, but this one blew up a non sound chip.

    It may be from suggestions in a number of posts that the trouble is in the wheel/pick up area and changing these may lower the current consumption!
    I just need someone to take these items in and sort them!!

    Cheers
    Paul
     
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  9. Jim Freight

    Jim Freight Full Member

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    Running on DC bad pickups generally equate to high resistance, lower current and slow loco, on DCC it can be seen as intermittant power loss causing frequent restarting of the decoder. I have also found that unreliable power pick up can cause DCC breakers which are set to low current values to trip possibly due to surges or spikes caused by the poor contacts. I have yet to be able to absolutely confirm and quantify that problem.

    In my opinion Lima motors that are serviced do not take much current and average decoders have no trouble with them, however if the brushes are badly worn, have carbon filled commutator slots (causes shorts) or the commutator is oily (yes some people oil them) or the mechanism is stiff through muck and fluff then that can be an issue.

    Also the better (or read more expensive) decoders generally have built in protection to resist being burnt out.
     
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  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    Ah, yes I understand. I only have a class 66 and class 60 from Lima. Both run well.

    Have a mainline 56 which is dead as a dodo though.

    I had a google the other day and a friend has pointed out there are some can motors (I think for CD players) but work on 6v not 12volts. And use a 3D printed plate/housing to secure them in

    Andy
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  11. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

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    No class 60 or 66 odly?
     

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